VIC Buses - Wiki Help needed

[BrillOBuffalo]

Hello!

I've taken on the challenge of updating the wiki page - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_M ... bus_routes

Basically many of you would know you need to reference all information, and especually the 'former routes' section of the page. I, know some of the information is valid, although i'm sure many of you guys know it also.
Therefore i'm asking for help to document and insert evidence of routes being merged, scrapped or basically changed, otherwise it'll all have to go. And for the avid Wiki user, learning about information like this (of former routes) is quite interesting, and therefore losing this information i believe is important, as was the original creator who created the 'former routes' table.


I've investigated with Wikipedia, and people are saying that if they (being the government and bus companies) are not publishing information about changes etc made to routes (that's more of less in the 'former routes' table) then it shouldn't be on Wikipedia. Which i find frustrating.


Btw, for those wondering, i'm also moving everything from the old 'Metlink' terminology to PTV, including links to the routes pages on ptv.vic.gov.au, which is a pain, but rewarding to see it updated


Thanks!

[Craig]

I admire your keen attitude to trying to update this page, but I personally don't like the Wiki model where someone else can come in and change your hard work overnight or independent reviewers remove pages as there is not enough references included. The upcoming BCSV website's "Virtual Museum" will include a timeline of the history of each route, expanding on the excellent notes Graeme Clarke wrote for the bi-monthly Australian Bus Panorama in the early 90s.

I've had thoughts to integrate the history with the timetables from the excellent Krustylink website into these history timelines and archived versions from Internet Wayback Machine from the late 90s onwards.

I'd be happy to help as a start go through the current route lists for you and point out any errors.

It is a shame that the ATDB admins recently decided to merge the timetable sections into the discussion sections, as they were a very easy to navigate chronological list of changes since about 2006. You will soon see you opening a Pandora's box once you try to compile the history of former routes.

Kind Regards


Craig

[Alstom 888M]

I at one point attempted to go through my Melway collection in an attempt to filter through it. It was too difficult as many numbers have been re-used many times, and that was only the ex-Met routes.

[Craig]

At first glance, here are some updates needed, just to the current routes list. I've included changes up until 24 January 2016 as current. Happy to help where I can, I used to help PaxInfo maintain the many pages of the former Meltrip website for several years.

Missing current routes - 150, 151, 153, 160, 166, 167, 170, 180, 190, 191, 192, 498 (all commenced 21 June 2015), 356, 357, 358 (all commenced 24 January 2016), 505 (commenced 8 May 2011), 509 (reintroduced 4 January 2016), 537 (commenced 27 January 2014), 831, 846, 847 (all commenced 20 December 2010),

Routes to move to former section - 436, 437, 442, 444, 445, 446, 447, 448, 449 & 493 (all ceased 20 June 2015), 535 (ceased 26 January 2014), 575 (ceased 23 January 2016), 692 (operated 15 December 2008 - 16 April 2010), 698 (ceased 27 August 2010),

Some miscellaneous comments - this gives you an idea how much work is involved. I'll leave it to you to make the actual changes.

Remove apostrophe in Fishermans Bend for 235 & 237

432 operates to Kingsville not Yarraville West.

476 - Extended to Plumpton from 24 January

443 Werribee - Werribee - circular route via Southern Werribee (no longer travels via South Ring Road since 21 June 2015)

496 now runs to Sanctuary Lakes (rather than just the shopping centre), extended 21 June 2015.

513 should be "via Coburg, Heidelberg, then via Greensborough or Lower Plenty"

517 - Viewbank is one word

538 - add Campbellfield to Somerset Estate

542 - Now travels to Pascoe Vale, since 18 November 2012

544 - Has not been shared with Dysons since 8 May 2011, when the Roxburgh Park - Broadmeadows section was deleted due to duplication with 901

551 - Heidelberg is not in Preston

561 - extended to Pascoe Vale (from 3 January 2016)

566 - change via to "via Watsonia, Greesnborough, Bundoora and Mill Park"

606 - Add comment "Extended from St Kilda to Elsternwick on 12 December 2011. Prior to this, services were limited to peak times."

624, 625, 626 - coding issues

663 - change comment to "Prior to October 4 2010, many trips terminated at Monbulk, requiring a change of bus for through journeys."

664 - change comment regarding Sunday service to "Until 4 December 2011, Sunday services continued beyond Chirnside Park to Lilydale"

670 - "From 4 October 2010, services were extended to the former Swinburne Uni Lilydale Campus until it's closure in July 2013."

673 - Commences at Lilydale. Spelling for Lillydale Lake is correct. Interpeak only.

675 - "Prior to 5 December 2011, ran interpeak periods only."

684 - "Regional Myki fares apply from Healesville, the only regional coach service to currently accept Myki"

685 - Lilydale to Healesville, add comment "Selected trips extend to Chirnside Park. On weekdays, transfer to 686 at Healesville to reach Healesville Sanctuary"

691 - Boronia to Waverley Gardens. "Until 3 December 2011, a industrial peak extension operated to Bayswater, and AM peak trips extended to Monash University (Clayton Campus)."

695/695F - add a separate listing for the Friday PM and weekend service between Gembrook & Fountain Gate.

696 - Commenced 30 August 2010 as a 12 month trial.

706 - "Three trips each way on weekdays only"

732 - "Services to/from Westfield Knox connect with Route 75 Tram to/from the City at Vermont South in lieu of a promised tram extension."

740 - "One service continues to Vermont Secondary College each day" (there is only school specials after school)

742 - Saturday frequency 40 mins 7am to 6pm, 60 mins 6pm to 9pm. Sundays 60 mins 9am to 9pm.

755 - "Some buses terminate/commence at The Basin. Westfield Knox City buses travel to The Basin Turntable before midday on weekdays, then afternoon services from Knox City serve The Basin Turntable. On weekends all trips operate via The Basin Turntable in both directions. Westfield Knox bound buses serve Ferntree Gully Station, Bayswater bound buses do not."

768 - "Operates during Deakin Trimesters 1 & 2 only. Commenced 19 July 2010."

770 - Replace "No return service" with "Trips operate via Dalpura Cct to Karingal Hub, but return via Karingal Dr. A limited shopper variation exists with trips deviate serving Orwil St"

771 - Update comment to read "Trips towards Langwarrin travel via Karingal Hub, while trips towards Frankston operate via Dalpura Cct".

773 - Update Saturday comment "Until 26 April 2013, Saturday services travelled to Frankston South via Yulie St and Overport Rd to provide additional service to the infrequent 773"

775 - "On weekends, the service runs via Foot St & Frankston High School"

777 - "Two trips each way on weekdays only"

782 - "Zone 3 myki fares apply from Balnarring to Flinders. Only weekday interpeak trips continue beyond Balnarring, while around 50% of trips terminate at Hastings on weekends"

786 - "Zone 4 myki fares apply"

787 - "Zone 3 & 4 myki fares apply. On weekdays, most trips operate in three shorter sections. Prior to mid 2000s, services were operated by Mornington Peninsula Shire as a community bus."

788 - "Zone 3 & 4 myki fares apply between Mt Martha and Portsea. Stopping restrictions apply between Frankston and Mornington, preventing local travel in this section."

789 - "Weekday services operate between Frankston & Langwarrin only."

791 - "Peak, evenings and Sundays version of 789 & 790, running direct along Frankston-Cranbourne Rd through Langwarrin."

795 - "Multiple variations serving costal hamlets including Tooraddin, Blind Bight, Cannons Creek and Warneet."

798 - Service commenced 27 July 2014

800 - Selected services deviate via Springvale Cemetery

812 - Weeknight & weekend services operate as a shuttle between Dandenong and Braeside, timed to connect with 811.

824 - On weekdays, 50% of services operate between Moorabbin and Westall only.

828 - Formerly a sister route of defunct routes 826 & 827, 826 closing on 27 January 2006 & 827 closing on 19 December 2010.

836 - Now Berwick - Eden Rise Shopping Centre

837 - Now Berwick - Beaconsfield East

839 - Now Berwick - Berwick North

840 - "Introduced as a 12 month trial on 29 March 2010"

841 - Narre Warren North - Cranbourne

858 - listed twice. "Commenced on 5 April 2010, replacing local sections of the former 888 & 889"

891 - Commenced 20 December 2010.

894 - Goes to Hallam not Fountain Gate. Comment "Until 18 December 2010, interpeak and Saturday services continued onto Fountain Gate. In peak times, a shuttle bus operated between Hallam and nearby Hinrichsen Dr. "

895 - Narre Warren South to Fountain Gate. Update comment "Until 17 December 2010, peak services travelled to Hallam Station and there was no peak service along Harold Keys Dr."

897 - Comment "Off-peak Services from Central Parkway extend to Cranbourne Park Shopping Centre but on the return passengers are required to change buses at Cranbourne Station, as all trips commence here."

898 - formatting issues, add Cranbourne East below "Archers Field Dr (Hunt Club)." Comment "Offpeak Services orginate from Cranbourne Park Shopping Centre, but on the return terminate at Cranbourne Station, with passengers required to change to another service."

908 - "Since 27 July 2014, services outside peak times terminate at Doncaster Park+Ride, and passengers travelling to/from the City must change to a connecting 907 bus."

925, 927, 928, 929 - Update route descriptions as per PTV website.

I assume you'll work out most of the operator changes in recent years, but I'm happy to check it again once you've made those updates. Maybe include the old operators in the comments column.

If you add frequency and span details, let me know, I am happy to glance over those as well.

Kind Regards


Craig

[PaxInfo]

In addition the NightRider bus routes were replaced by Night Network bus routes from 1 Jan 2016. Hence that section needs thorough revising.

Some routes have kept the same number but have been altered. Some route numbers are no longer used while there are some new routes with new numbers. Information on the new network appears on the PTV site.

[Heihachi_73]

Route 666 was basically a shortened route 665 many years (decades) ago, operating around the Wantirna area. Not much info about it on the net - in fact, most Google results link straight back to these forums!

Don't know if you want to include reused route numbers, like the old 304 being Ringwood to City/Queen St (which was extended to Crown Casino at night, used to terminate at the Melbourne tourist shuttle stop on Queen's Bridge).

[Craig]

Route 666 was basically a shortened route 665 many years (decades) ago, operating around the Wantirna area. Not much info about it on the net - in fact, most Google results link straight back to these forums!

As I mentioned above, the BCSV is currently in the long process of updating the last 20 years history of bus routes in Melbourne, adding to the expertly researched notes by Graeme Cleak - here are his notes for the 666.

666 (1st) Ringwood-Dandenong
Some trips of the 665 deviated via Heywood Street in South Ringwood and in the 1971 renumbering these were shown as 666. Closed 14/5/1979.

666 (2nd) Ringwood Circuit Service
Opened 7/12/1981 by Invicta B.L. but taken over by M.T.A 27/10/84 and renumbered 366, 367.

There are some more detailed comments about both versions of the 666 here - http://www.busaustralia.com/forum/viewt ... 75#p316616

And more on the Ringwood City Circuit here - http://www.busaustralia.com/forum/viewt ... 3&start=25

Kind Regards


Craig

[Alstom 888M]

I understand that the MMTB/MTA took over routes after operators around Doncaster and Brighton went bust and a buyer could not be found, but what was the logic on this occasion?

[BrillOBuffalo]

Thanks @Craig that's very resourceful of you!

In addition the NightRider bus routes were replaced by Night Network bus routes from 1 Jan 2016. Hence that section needs thorough revising.

Some routes have kept the same number but have been altered. Some route numbers are no longer used while there are some new routes with new numbers. Information on the new network appears on the PTV site.

I actually updated the entire Nightrider to Night Bus, but there's this guy who reverts my changes.
I'm fustrated, and honestly as you've mentioned Craig, am doing it with the idea that anyone else can change it.

The guy 'Charlesdrakew' only wants sources added...i don't blame him. But his a real ass. I'm only trying to fix up formatting errors, yet he reverts it all -.-
If you see his profile, his also impacted on Adelaide's PT wiki page.


@Craig
I'm seriously considering contacting PTV to make a proper appointment to work out more about these former routes. And hopefully gather a lot of evidence on there history.
Annoyingly these's almost no (public) documentation (eg websites) with information about routes altered etc, which i'm trying to find out.

I guess there's a historian or better called someone with information that i can gather, and also capture photos of some type of evidence to reference them to on the page.


I'm also considering creating a google doc, public (and posted here) that'll have a giant table with this info that i'm researching i guess, where you'll all be able to add to (with approved addition, eg. after you change / add something, it'll need to be accepted).

What do you guys reckon?

[Fleet Lists]

Thanks @Craig that's very resourceful of you!


I actually updated the entire Nightrider to Night Bus, but there's this guy who reverts my changes.
I'm fustrated, and honestly as you've mentioned Craig, am doing it with the idea that anyone else can change it.

The guy 'Charlesdrakew' only wants sources added...i don't blame him. But his a real ass. I'm only trying to fix up formatting errors, yet he reverts it all -.-
If you see his profile, his also impacted on Adelaide's PT wiki page.

He is one of the reasons I stopped updating Wiki. He can be most unreasonable. And I think he has a dislike for buses.

[burrumbus]

[quote="Alstom 888M"]I understand that the MMTB/MTA took over routes after operators around Doncaster and Brighton went bust and a buyer could not be found, but what was the logic on this occasion?[/quog
G'day Alstom 888M.
The MMTB took over the services of only 2 operators in the Doncaster area from 1961-Withers Transport Industries Pty.Ltd,including subsidiary companies Box Hill Bus Lines and Warrandyte Transport Services(from 2/7/61), and Rouch and Kennedy Pty.Ltd(from 31/12/67).Neither operator went broke.It was a political decision to extend MMTB services into those areas.Withers, who had the licences for most of the Doncaster,Warrandyte,Templestowe area, would have had to expand their operations enormously to cater for the growth experienced in those areas from the mid 60s and to also upgrade their own pretty average fleet.It would have been interesting to see what would have happened if Withers remained,.
MTA took over the 3 route services and fleet of Melbourne Brighton Bus Lines Pty.Ltd in April 1985.MBBL was experiencing major industrial problems as the Government drivers union muscled out the private drivers union of the day.This was the main reason MBBL sold out.Sheer frustration on the owners and management's part.But I also understand it was only a marginally profitable business.The 3 route services,or the parts currently embedded in other routes are mere shadows of the strongly patronised services that MBBL operated with high quality buses.One takeover in my opinion that hasn't worked well.
The 2 city services very simply suck up a large amount of resources for the very light loadings carried and really need to be reworked into a more viable form.

[burrumbus]

I understand that the MMTB/MTA took over routes after operators around Doncaster and Brighton went bust and a buyer could not be found, but what was the logic on this occasion?

To integrate the Invicta service into their own routes into Ringwood.

[krustyklo]

A few additions to Craig's info:
281 - There is a comment on the page of "All Saturday services terminate at Box Hill Central". To improve clarity, it should probably read "All Saturday services only run part of the route from the Templestowe terminus to Box Hill Central".
282 - should have a note to match that for the 280 indicating an "Anticlockwise circular service"
513 - I'd amend Craig's comment to something like "shares a common route between Glenroy and Rosanna, then travels either via Greensborough or Lower Plenty". The current version sounds like it travels via both.
535 - Apart from the missing number in the list, the route no longer exists either.
551 - Seems to have an extraneous "Preston" underneath Heidelberg (damn copy and paste! )
552 to 559 - Reservoir Bus Company are now owned by Dysons and all routes should now refer to Dysons as the operator.
562 - Certain trips on the 562 extend to Humevale.
565 - Missing. Runs from Whittlesea to Kinglake. http://www.ptv.vic.gov.au/route/view/5751. Was introduced as a seperate route to the 562 (which used to operate a single am peak service from Kinglake, with a pm peak return) after the Black Saturday bushfires to provide public transport to Kinglake for those who had lost cars, and provide enhanced community services whilst the area recovered. Not sure when the extra services stopped, now is back to very limited services albeit marginally better than previously.
573 - Missing. Runs from Bundoora to Mill Park Lakes. http://www.ptv.vic.gov.au/route/view/5769
670 - Seems to have the route link at the top of the "600-699" list, with the details incorrectly formatted in the table.
709 - Route link missing: http://www.ptv.vic.gov.au/route/view/5214

As for former bus routes, I think you're on a hiding to nothing, and await the BCSV site which I would simply link to from Wikipedia, but obvious corrections would be:
249 - Did this exist? The only LaTrobe Uni to City routes I am aware of since the late 70s are the 256 (with shortworkings labelled as 251, 252 and 253 to various points in West Heidelberg), 250 (the current route), the 340 and 350 (as per current freeway route) and the 259 (same as 350). The 256 and 259 were operated by the Metropolitan Transit Authority and the 250 / 340 / 350 by National Bus.
565 - Officially it ran from Greensborough to Apollo Parkways. https://sites.google.com/site/melbbustt565/There is no local knowledge of "Greensborough North East". Such an area would be the area locally known as "St Helena" or "Greenhills".

Obvious additions would be:
525 - https://sites.google.com/site/krustyklo/525 Peak hour service from West Reservoir to Coburg along Newlands Rd. Was replaced by 561 extension west. Plenty of discussion on here at the time.
563 - https://sites.google.com/site/melbbustt563/ Originally ran Mill Park to Northland along Plenty Rd. From July 20 1986 with the changes implemented as part of the route 86 tram extension, 563 ran from Mill Park North to LaTrobe University. Was later cut back to Bundoora tram terminus with a few peak trips to LaTrobe Uni still, then in 1995 was extended at the southern end back to Northland, and to the growing suburb of South Morang at the northern end. In 2003 it was extended from South Morang east then south to Greensborough to replace the 565 around Apollo PArkways. I can't remember the final date when the route was cut, but it was only in the last 4 years.

I'm seriously considering contacting PTV to make a proper appointment to work out more about these former routes. And hopefully gather a lot of evidence on there history.

Others may be better qualified to comment, but would the PTV have much information themselves? Or interest in sharing it if they did? My understanding is that some research on the PROV website (http://prov.vic.gov.au/), and a visit to their location in North Melbourne may be more useful. Other sources of information would be the State Library of Victoria, and if you have access to a university library (eg, as a student) then there is a suprising amount of info there. For example, from memory there is a copy of the 80s MetPlans at LaTrobe Uni library (annoyed with myself for not taking advantage of that fact when I was a student there ).

[maxy54]

Another few routes that need updating are:

181: Most services continue to Laverton Station as Route 498
246: Services previously ran to La Trobe University (Monday-Friday) only
498: Most services continue to Werribee Station as Route 181
612: All services after 2pm on Saturday afternoon run between Chadstone and Camberwell Shopping Centre
624: Some services divert via Darling Road, Malvern East. At all other times services run via Neerim Road, Carnegie
703: Sunday services terminate at Bentleigh Station and do not continue to Middle Brighton

[Richard1207]

A few additions to Craig's info:
573 - Missing. Runs from Bundoora to Mill Park Lakes. http://www.ptv.vic.gov.au/route/view/5769

I added the 573 to the list in August 2013 when I made some updates, so I don't understand why it's been deleted.

[krustyklo]

I added the 573 to the list in August 2013 when I made some updates, so I don't understand why it's been deleted.

Don't shoot the messenger!