Victorian Observations - September 2009

[Wally Otto]

Ok, what's going on with Dysons 485 to 488? I've caught 488 almost every day the past 3 weeks and the validator hasn't been working. Today I ride 486, and, same issue. Knowing the machines are 13 years old, it's understandable, but can you please just fix em? 3 weeks is just ridiculous!!!

(Oh, and whilst yer at it, trial a 20 min frequency on 508 on Saturdays. A full seated load at 10:30 is a bit extravagant!)

Noted on the back of Nat 541, a shiny new ad featuring "Give Way to buses - It's the law". Kudos to the government for that one!

[krustyklo]

Sorry. Had a brain fart moment there. I meant bus #486 which is the Dyson depicted is fitted with what appears to be a Southport LED destination indicator.

If you're referring to the bright orange ones, the side destination has the Southport website in white on black below the LEDs (www.southporteng.com or something like that)

[RailwayBus]

Can definately confirm that the new desto unit in Ventura 681 is definately made by Southport (same as dysons got a few months ago). The side unit is already defective. The new bus smell is very strong

[MAN 16.242]

Ok, what's going on with Dysons 485 to 488? I've caught 488 almost every day the past 3 weeks and the validator hasn't been working. Today I ride 486, and, same issue. Knowing the machines are 13 years old, it's understandable, but can you please just fix em? 3 weeks is just ridiculous!!!

Well sometimes there is just no enough time to fix every little thing, like the validators, due to many reasons like the buses might be on the road for long hours each day.

(Oh, and whilst yer at it, trial a 20 min frequency on 508 on Saturdays. A full seated load at 10:30 is a bit extravagant!)

Is there really any need to trial a 20 min frequency on 508 on Saturdays. Ok it might be getting full seated loads, but i think theres no really need to trial a 20 min frequency till the bus starts get packed.

[CB80]

Can definately confirm that the new desto unit in Ventura 681 is definately made by Southport (same as dysons got a few months ago). The side unit is already defective. The new bus smell is very strong

Looks nice though eh. Not sure if I like it more than the flipdots though.

[krustyklo]

Well sometimes there is just no enough time to fix every little thing, like the validators, due to many reasons like the buses might be on the road for long hours each day.

I thought validators were fixed 'on the road'? I've definitley seen it done on trams, and I once saw an ex workmate, who got a job with ERG after the company we worked for was liquidated, on a bus to fix a validator somewhere (Box Hill Central I think).

[krustyklo]

Is there really any need to trial a 20 min frequency on 508 on Saturdays. Ok it might be getting full seated loads, but i think theres no really need to trial a 20 min frequency till the bus starts get packed.

If a bus service is consistently full and seated at 10.30pm Saturday night, that suggests that there might be more revenue to be earned from the route by improving the service. Inner city on Saturday night is reasonably busy now and there's probably some case for running more services given the traffic in the obvious hotspots can be pretty busy.

In the case of the 508, it would also depend on the potential interchange from trams or trains. If the interchange is mostly from trams, then maybe every 20 mins might be better. If from trains, then leave it at every 30 mins to connect with every train.

It also depends on what is meant by 'full seated load' and the calculation used for whether a bus service is well and truly paying it's way and in need of more buses.

[RailwayBus]

With trains, a train is classified as "full" when all seats are taken (approx 550 seats). I would imagine that the same is the case for buses?

If the 508 has a full (seated) load at 10.30, then I'd say it's deserving of an upgrade once people have to start standing.

[Brendan03]

With trains, a train is classified as "full" when all seats are taken (approx 550 seats). I would imagine that the same is the case for buses?

If the 508 has a full (seated) load at 10.30, then I'd say it's deserving of an upgrade once people have to start standing.

A general rule of thumb that I've picked up also, is when something leaves as 'full' - When you increase frequency, It also manages to increase appeal to more people which in turn, attracts even more customers (within reason)

[The Cap a tan]

Ok, what's going on with Dysons 485 to 488? I've caught 488 almost every day the past 3 weeks and the validator hasn't been working. Today I ride 486, and, same issue. Knowing the machines are 13 years old, it's understandable, but can you please just fix em? 3 weeks is just ridiculous!!!

Maybe the one today wasn't working because of the free travel on buses in zone 2 on weekends in September.

[handyandy]

Spotted Driver Bus Lines #26 on Dandenong Road this afternoon. It had a sign at the rear of the bus but i couldn't see it. I guess it's driver training.

[MAN 16.242]

Well sometimes there is just no enough time to fix every little thing, like the validators, due to many reasons like the buses might be on the road for long hours each day.

I thought validators were fixed 'on the road'? I've definitley seen it done on trams, and I once saw an ex workmate, who got a job with ERG after the company we worked for was liquidated, on a bus to fix a validator somewhere (Box Hill Central I think).

Yes they are sometimes fixed 'on the road', but sometimes they are not able to do this

[handyandy]

Well sometimes there is just no enough time to fix every little thing, like the validators, due to many reasons like the buses might be on the road for long hours each day.

I thought validators were fixed 'on the road'? I've definitley seen it done on trams, and I once saw an ex workmate, who got a job with ERG after the company we worked for was liquidated, on a bus to fix a validator somewhere (Box Hill Central I think).

Maybe they're replaced with a validator from another bus. Example Driver Bus #33 had a validator with driver #60 written down on the bottom of the validator.

[MAN 16.242]

Maybe they're replaced with a validator from another bus. Example Driver Bus #33 had a validator with driver #60 written down on the bottom of the validator.

Most new buses get the validator from another bus, usually the bus they are replaceing, but this is not always the case.

[handyandy]

Maybe they're replaced with a validator from another bus. Example Driver Bus #33 had a validator with driver #60 written down on the bottom of the validator.

Most new buses get the validator from another bus, usually the bus they are replaceing, but this is not always the case.

Whats also not the case is when a fresh, new validator doesn't work. After my work experience, new validators have their covers come off, i see everything!!!

[Trolley Bus Racer]

ive seen one tumble out the door on a sita bus interesting to watch

[Wally Otto]

If a bus service is consistently full and seated at 10.30pm Saturday night, that suggests that there might be more revenue to be earned from the route by improving the service. Inner city on Saturday night is reasonably busy now and there's probably some case for running more services given the traffic in the obvious hotspots can be pretty busy.

Not consistantly (It's only a one bus service, or hourly, from 7pm to last bus, 11pm) but fairly frequently. Given it's also the closest cross-town link in the north (to the city), it's fairly major.

In the case of the 508, it would also depend on the potential interchange from trams or trains. If the interchange is mostly from trams, then maybe every 20 mins might be better. If from trains, then leave it at every 30 mins to connect with every train.

Usually it gets 75% of it's patronage from Sydney Rd & High St, with Lygon St, Moonee Ponds & Melville Rd being minor generators. Remember that it hasn't been reviewed yet, so there's no point in whinging.

It also depends on what is meant by 'full seated load' and the calculation used for whether a bus service is well and truly paying it's way and in need of more buses.

My definition of a full seated load is pretty much every seat filled (under 3 empty seats per bus, or 9/10 fill) That said, when almost every service 7-6 Weekdays, 9-6 Saturdays is like that, you know it needs a slight upgrade.
I mean, if the service can support a 12 min, 2/3 filled service in peaks, and buses to 10pm Weekdays, 11pm Sat, why not?

[krustyklo]

Not consistantly (It's only a one bus service, or hourly, from 7pm to last bus, 11pm) but fairly frequently. Given it's also the closest cross-town link in the north (to the city), it's fairly major.

I thought it was half hourly Sat evening, perhaps hourly might not be enough, as you say, if an infrequent service like that is still reasonably well used. I'd probably suggest it being the closest cross city route is irrelevant. The closest cross Yarra service outside of the inner city is the 609...
Or to use an extreme example, if the next cross city service north ran every 15-20 minutes of an evening and wasn't too far away, then it may be no big deal.

Usually it gets 75% of it's patronage from Sydney Rd & High St, with Lygon St, Moonee Ponds & Melville Rd being minor generators. Remember that it hasn't been reviewed yet, so there's no point in whinging.

I'm certainly not whinging, it doesn't affect me either way! I don't live near it, and I have a 2 year old so aren't exactly out partying on Saturday nights...
As for the review, I doubt it will change, it has a clearly defined purpose and at best might improve frequency although given it's current frequency is pretty good much of the time, especially compared to most Melbourne bus routes, I wouldn't go holding my breath...

My definition of a full seated load is pretty much every seat filled (under 3 empty seats per bus, or 9/10 fill) That said, when almost every service 7-6 Weekdays, 9-6 Saturdays is like that, you know it needs a slight upgrade.

Or to a bureaucrat has 'good cost recovery' which would be diluted by improving the service... it all depends on your point of view...<sigh>
Although I personally would agree with you that improving the service might be worth the short term pain if the services are genuinely full most trips for most of the route (although I'd forgive a few less than full buses past Station St to Alphington, that probably is the only part of the route that might need thinking about to find a better traffic generator to terminate at although no idea where!)

I'd be interested to know more about how these sorts of decisions are made, and what constitutes success with upgrades, it would make some of these conversations a lot more informed and useful to all concerned, even for pro-PT DoT employees keen to see things improve and open to people here lobbying for improvements from politicians in return for better info. Where's Revenue when you need him...

[BroadGauge]

(although I'd forgive a few less than full buses past Station St to Alphington, that probably is the only part of the route that might need thinking about to find a better traffic generator to terminate at although no idea where!)

Alphington certainly isn't a destination at all, but running them there does have logic in connecting with Hurstbridge line trains. The other idea I could think of would be to swing a left at Grange Rd and run it to Ivanhoe instead

[Wally Otto]

Not consistantly (It's only a one bus service, or hourly, from 7pm to last bus, 11pm) but fairly frequently. Given it's also the closest cross-town link in the north (to the city), it's fairly major.

I thought it was half hourly Sat evening, perhaps hourly might not be enough, as you say, if an infrequent service like that is still reasonably well used. I'd probably suggest it being the closest cross city route is irrelevant. The closest cross Yarra service outside of the inner city is the 609...
Or to use an extreme example, if the next cross city service north ran every 15-20 minutes of an evening and wasn't too far away, then it may be no big deal.

It's always been hourly on Saturday nights. You're thinking of Weekdays, where it's roughly half-hourly from 7pm to last bus.
Considering the next cross city service is Bell St (513/903), it's a tad far out, ergo why I think that it may have some effect on patronage. A lot of people ride it from Moonee Ponds or Brunswick to Northcote, and connect to another service at either end.

My definition of a full seated load is pretty much every seat filled (under 3 empty seats per bus, or 9/10 fill) That said, when almost every service 7-6 Weekdays, 9-6 Saturdays is like that, you know it needs a slight upgrade.

Or to a bureaucrat has 'good cost recovery' which would be diluted by improving the service... it all depends on your point of view...<sigh>
Although I personally would agree with you that improving the service might be worth the short term pain if the services are genuinely full most trips for most of the route (although I'd forgive a few less than full buses past Station St to Alphington, that probably is the only part of the route that might need thinking about to find a better traffic generator to terminate at although no idea where!)

Very true there, everyone has a different point of view on patronage.
As most of the services are "full" as far as Northcote Plaza, and at times, Victoria Rd, with more often than not it being fairly quiet past Victoria Rd.

As to altering the route, I would suggest going down Wingrove St (with the Alphington loop replaced & extended to Northcote via 567, query extention of 503), Heidelburg/Upr Heidelburg Rd to Ivanhoe Stn. That would provide a provide a proper link along Heidelburg rd, with Upper gaining a service for the first time.

[Apollo]

Come on everyone. Observations only please!!!

[Bradley]

Here my obveration yesterday (12 September).

Sighted Invictabus #45 been Grendarized and becames #745 (Dennis Dart SLF, Volgren CR221L) ran the 2.00pm Area 4 Telebus to Mooroolbark at Croydon Station.

Cheers

Bradley.

[Grenda Driver]

Grenda's are about to take delievery of 2 new Scania K series (i'm lead to believe) artics.

[B7RLE]

Grenda's are about to take delievery of 2 new Scania K series (i'm lead to believe) artics.

That will spell the end for 2 fujis at Cardinia

[MAN 16.242]

My definition of a full seated load is pretty much every seat filled (under 3 empty seats per bus, or 9/10 fill) That said, when almost every service 7-6 Weekdays, 9-6 Saturdays is like that, you know it needs a slight upgrade.

I don't think a service should be upgrade just because its getting full seated loads(unless its at nightime wherefrequency of buses can be poor),there are many services out there that are worse with packed loads.
BTW next time you are complaining about bus routes could you please NOT post about it in this thread.