Victoria's top 20 largest bus/coach operators

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stajourneyman
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Victoria's top 20 largest bus/coach operators

Post by stajourneyman »

Following on from an earlier thread wherein I requested info on the ten largest bus and coach operators in Victoria, and, thereafter, received a fairly underwhelming response, I have therefore decided that if you want a job done properly .... !!

No, actually, the received info was good, but I have decided to delve into the fleet lists myself and to compile a list of the 20 largest bus/coach operators in the State.


1. Grenda's..........................592.....comprising Grenda's, Peninsula, Portsea, Moorabbin, Cardinia and Invicta
2. Ventura/National................525.....comprising five depots across Melbourne's eastern suburbs
3. CDC (ex Kefford)................339.....comprising six depots across Melb. west and east suburbs & Geelong and Ballarat
4. Dineen Group....................320 +...No exact figure known, in excess of 320 (8 fleets across Melb outer suburbs etc)
5. Dyson's (Vic only)................314.....NSW and NT ops omitted (numerous fleets across Victoria's north and east)
6. Donric Group.....................217.....comprising Sunbury, Bacchus Marsh, Goldbus and Organ's
7. Pulitano Group...................192.....comprising US, Cranbourne, MMBL, and A.C.T.
8. Sita................................174....comprising single fleet in Melbourne's western suburbs
9. McHarry...........................154....comprising single fleet in Geelong area
10. Warrnambool Group............145....comprising Warrnambool, Portland, and Sunraysia fleets in NW and SW Victoria
11. Crown............................112....comprising single fleet in Melbourne's eastern suburbs
12. Mee's..............................91....comprising single fleet in Melbourne's northern suburbs
13. Dyson/Reservoir joint vent.....90....comprising Melbourne Bus Link in Melbourne's western and southern suburbs
14. Driver.............................87....comprising single fleet in Melbourne's eastern suburbs
15. Christian Group..................80 +..comprising Ararat, Beaufort, Bendigo, and other unidentified depots
16. Reservoir Group.................76....comprising Reservoir, Midland and part East West in Melb's northern suburbs
17. Latrobe Valley....................69....comprising three depots in Victoria's eastern region
18. Fallon Group......................67....comprising Fallon's, Shepparton Transit, and Falls Creek Charter
19. Pickering Group..................61 +..comprising Swan Hill, Swanlink, Kingston's, and Dunkeld
20. Seymour...........................59....comprising single fleet in central Victoria
Last edited by stajourneyman on Mon Apr 20, 2009 3:27 pm, edited 8 times in total.
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Re: Victoria's top 20 largest bus/coach operators

Post by Grenda Driver »

Does the Dyson's figure included Melbourne Bus Link?
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stajourneyman
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Re: Victoria's top 20 largest bus/coach operators

Post by stajourneyman »

Grenda Driver wrote:Does the Dyson's figure included Melbourne Bus Link?
Umm no. It's at position 13 !!

Actually, I had forgotten it, and only realised a few minutes before you posted!

It's probably more appropriate to list it separately, rather than to try to split it up between the two shareholders ie Dyson's and Reservoir.
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Re: Victoria's top 20 largest bus/coach operators

Post by E.L.Wood »

The comment about Sita having vehicles interstate is incorrect, Sita closed their Sydney depot some time ago and the Sunbus operation is now no longer owned by them, so all the fleet is based in Melbourne. Some Sita mini buses still operate Sunbus services but under a lease/dry hire arrangement. All of the vehicles which operate the Avalon Airport Shuttle are now branded as 'Sita Avalon Shuttle'

I'm not sure of the exact figures for Christians but I count approximately 80 vehicles across their fleets.
The Dunkeld vehicles of Pickerings are included in the Swan Hill fleet list, which doesn't include their base.
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Re: Victoria's top 20 largest bus/coach operators

Post by Member1100 »

stajourneyman wrote:Following on from an earlier thread wherein I requested info on the ten largest bus and coach operators in Victoria, and, thereafter, received a fairly underwhelming response, I have therefore decided that if you want a job done properly .... !!
Dont worry, it has been a downside to this forum for quite some time. It seems while people are quite happy to bicker over whether Scania sources its wheel nuts from China or Taiwan, and create a 14 page thread arguing over it, the moment anybody starts a serious discussion or wants some useful information, the silence is often deafening.

That said, thanks for doing that list. While it might be a fraction inaccurate for reasons already listed, it gives us a reasonable idea of where things are at.
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Re: Victoria's top 20 largest bus/coach operators

Post by system improver »

stajourneyman wrote:
Grenda Driver wrote:Does the Dyson's figure included Melbourne Bus Link?
It's probably more appropriate to list it separately, rather than to try to split it up between the two shareholders ie Dyson's and Reservoir.
I think it is only Dyson's.
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Re: Victoria's top 20 largest bus/coach operators

Post by Dennis Dart »

Should Midland Tours be grouped with Resevoir? My understanding is that there are some common shareholders of the two companies, but they are different concerns.

However operationally, Resevoir and Midland share the same depot. And some Resevoir vehicles have been cascaded across to the Midland operation.

The issue is the definition of "operator". Is it on the basis of the umbrella company or on the basis of the operation. And adding to the Melbourne Bus Link issue is the East West operation. Could these vehicles be included on the basis of where they are based (High Street or Bundoora).

An interesting discussion.

Regards,

Dennis
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Re: Victoria's top 20 largest bus/coach operators

Post by tonyw »

Dennis Dart wrote:Should Midland Tours be grouped with Resevoir? My understanding is that there are some common shareholders of the two companies, but they are different concerns.

However operationally, Resevoir and Midland share the same depot. And some Resevoir vehicles have been cascaded across to the Midland operation.

The issue is the definition of "operator". Is it on the basis of the umbrella company or on the basis of the operation. And adding to the Melbourne Bus Link issue is the East West operation. Could these vehicles be included on the basis of where they are based (High Street or Bundoora).

An interesting discussion.

Regards,

Dennis
In my view as a former accountant, the operator is the entity which runs the buses and owns the routes. So MBL is separate from Dyson's and Reservoir. But if the ownership is the same, like I think all the Grenda companies are 100% Grenda owned, or at least not joint ventures with other Melbourne operators, then they can be grouped together. Similarly, Vantura and National can be grouped together cos NBL is a wholly owned subsidiary of VBL. Please feel free to correct me if I have any of the ownership structures wrong.
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Re: Victoria's top 20 largest bus/coach operators

Post by Scania82 »

What about the Fallon Group?

Between Alexandra, Shepparton and Mt. Beauty I count 67 vehicles...
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Re: Victoria's top 20 largest bus/coach operators

Post by stajourneyman »

Thanks for the various replies and inputs.

Firstly, scania82, I had no idea that Fallon's were so large. Now updated.

Secondly, tonyw, Dennis Dart, and system improver ... it has always been my understanding that Reservoir and Midland were under the same ownership. I didn't (because I forgot to!) include Midland with Reservoir, and won't now until someone can possibly clarify it.

Regarding Melbourne Bus Link, my understanding has always been that it was/is a joint venture between Dyson's and Reservoir. I checked the MBL fleet list and found that it does identify Dyson's and Reservoir as the co-owners.

East West is also listed as a Dyson/Reservoir joint venture. I think it's probably more appropriate to now group both MBL and East West under D/R J.V. A further little devilish detail is that some East West buses are owned by the joint venture (8)whilst other E/W liveried units (6) are Dyson owned! I will, therefore, only include the JV owned units, as the Dyson ones are listed and counted under Dyson's.

Thirdly, E.L.Wood, I have made changes to reflect your comments. Out of interest, where did you come by the additional Christian figures. Are they somewhere in the fleet lists or from your own knowledge?
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Re: Victoria's top 20 largest bus/coach operators

Post by RailwayBus »

stajourneyman wrote:
Regarding Melbourne Bus Link, my understanding has always been that it was/is a joint venture between Dyson's and Reservoir. I checked the MBL fleet list and found that it does identify Dyson's and Reservoir as the co-owners.

East West is also listed as a Dyson/Reservoir joint venture. I think it's probably more appropriate to now group both MBL and East West under D/R J.V. A further little devilish detail is that some East West buses are owned by the joint venture (8)whilst other E/W liveried units (6) are Dyson owned! I will, therefore, only include the JV owned units, as the Dyson ones are listed and counted under Dyson's.
My understanding is that East West is a joint venture which was started from scratch, whereas MBL is a seperate company with the two as co-parents, happening after the final government bus routes got privatised.

With East West, everything is specced to either Dysons or Reservoir standard, and everything lives at the certain depots, and is somewhat integrated.

Thats my understanding anyway.

So I'd be inclined to divide the EW total between Dysons and Reservoir, but keep MBL seperate?
All views expressed are strictly my own and do not represent my employer or anyone else.
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Re: Victoria's top 20 largest bus/coach operators

Post by MMTB Busnut »

I just want to say well done on this list, it now shows in rough numbers the rankings of the larger companies. Firstly well done to Grenda group to be in the lead at this point in time. I would have originally thought that Dyson's would have been third, but seeing the numbers I am suprised with how the numbers drop so rapidly from the leading two groups from 500+ to just over 300+.
stajourneyman wrote: 1. Grenda's..........................592
2. Ventura/National................525
3. CDC (ex Kefford)................339
4. Dineen Group....................320 +...No exact figure known, but in excess of 320
5. Dyson's (Vic only)................314.....NSW and NT operations omitted
6. Donric Group.....................217.....comprising Sunbury, Bacchus Marsh, Goldbus and Organ's
7. Pulitano Group...................192.....comprising US, Cranbourne, MMBL, and A.C.T.
8. Sita................................174
9. McHarry...........................154
10. Warrnambool Group............145....comprising Warrnambool, Portland, and Sunraysia
11. Crown............................112
12. Dyson/Reservoir joint vent.....98....comprising Melbourne Bus Link (90) and East West 'owned' (8)
13. Mee's..............................91
14. Driver.............................87
15. Christian Group..................80 +...comprising Ararat, Beaufort, Bendigo, and other unidentified depots
16. Latrobe Valley....................69
17. Fallon Group......................67.....comprising Fallon's, Shepparton Transit, and Falls Creek Charter
18. Pickering Group..................61 +...comprising Swan Hill, Swanlink, Kingston's, and Dunkeld
19. Seymour...........................59
20A. Nuline/Bayside..................48
20B. Reservoir........................48
20C. Jacobsen........................ 48
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Re: Victoria's top 20 largest bus/coach operators

Post by E.L.Wood »

RailwayBus wrote:
stajourneyman wrote:
Regarding Melbourne Bus Link, my understanding has always been that it was/is a joint venture between Dyson's and Reservoir. I checked the MBL fleet list and found that it does identify Dyson's and Reservoir as the co-owners.

East West is also listed as a Dyson/Reservoir joint venture. I think it's probably more appropriate to now group both MBL and East West under D/R J.V. A further little devilish detail is that some East West buses are owned by the joint venture (8)whilst other E/W liveried units (6) are Dyson owned! I will, therefore, only include the JV owned units, as the Dyson ones are listed and counted under Dyson's.
My understanding is that East West is a joint venture which was started from scratch, whereas MBL is a seperate company with the two as co-parents, happening after the final government bus routes got privatised.

With East West, everything is specced to either Dysons or Reservoir standard, and everything lives at the certain depots, and is somewhat integrated.

Thats my understanding anyway.

So I'd be inclined to divide the EW total between Dysons and Reservoir, but keep MBL seperate?
East West is a joint operation, but the vehicles do not operate any joint routes, so the Reservoir based units operate one group of runs while the Dysons based units operate a seperate group of runs. Dysons is straight forward as the Dyson EW vehicles carry Dysons fleet numbers andare included in the main fleet listing, while Reservoir's units are numbered separately and have their own listing - I'm led to believe the Cooper family own Reservoir and Midland Tours, while their East West vehicles share branding with Dysons and are owned by the Coopers as well. http://www.reservoirbus.com.au does tend to confirm this, so I'd list all of those vehicles under the Reservoir title.
MBL is also a joint venture between Dysons and Reservoir, but was formed specifically to tender for the former Metbus Footscray based operation and so remains a seperate company for the purposes of the listing, the difference between East West and MBL is the depot arrangements, MBL is a separate entity completely while East West is only a joint venture in name as as has been stated the vehicles are specced and garaged separately.
Checking the 2 web sites Reservoir lists the 4 East West routes, while the Dysons site lists only the 2 Dysons operated routes!

Good work in getting the list up, certainly has given us something to mull over rather than other seemingly trivial postings.
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Re: Victoria's top 20 largest bus/coach operators

Post by trickos »

Brilliant work on the list.
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Re: Victoria's top 20 largest bus/coach operators

Post by stajourneyman »

trickos wrote:Brilliant work on the list.
Umm, Fleet Lists himself plus others probably deserve the vast majority of the credit.

I simply spent an hour or so and collected the fleet numbers from each listing in the Victoria lists and compiled it from there.

For those who are interested, I have also done one for NSW. It is in the Sydney / NSW section of the board. (I don't know how to do the link thing!!).

I found the whole thing quite interesting, as it gave me the chance to get 'who's who' right in my head. For example, I wasn't even aware of the existence of the Pickering 'Group'.

We often hear of this operator and that, without really knowing how big they actually are. Christians are another one to me. I realise it is all in the fleetlists on the board, but without taking the time to dig through the info, it's easy to overlook them.

It is also interesting that quite a few on this list are still actively involved in company acquisitions, so I daresay these numbers will continue to change with time.
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Re: Victoria's top 20 largest bus/coach operators

Post by PenBus »

It is also interesting that quite a few on this list are still actively involved in company acquisitions, so I daresay these numbers will continue to change with time.
Do you know of any such company acquisition that may be occurring at this stage?
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Re: Victoria's top 20 largest bus/coach operators

Post by stajourneyman »

PenBus wrote:
It is also interesting that quite a few on this list are still actively involved in company acquisitions, so I daresay these numbers will continue to change with time.
Do you know of any such company acquisition that may be occurring at this stage?
When I said they are still actively involved, I was meaning in the (recent) past tense.

For example. in the past year or two, Grenda's have taken over several smaller Peninsula operators, not to mention Invicta; Ventura have taken over National; CDC of course has just taken over Kefford's; Dineen's have taken over McKenzie's; Dyson's have taken over Organ's, Northern and Mylon's; and that's just the top 5 operators.

I'm not aware of any rumoured upcomings, but given what they have done in just the past two years, it's reasonable to expect that more will follow.
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Re: Victoria's top 20 largest bus/coach operators

Post by MAN 16.242 »

stajourneyman wrote:Dyson's have taken over Organ's, Northern and Mylon's; and that's just the top 5 operators.
Dysons's has never taken over Organ's. Organ's was taken over by Donric Group.
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Re: Victoria's top 20 largest bus/coach operators

Post by Bus Bro »

When I said they are still actively involved, I was meaning in the (recent) past tense.

For example. in the past year or two, Grenda's have taken over several smaller Peninsula operators, not to mention Invicta; Ventura have taken over National; CDC of course has just taken over Kefford's; Dineen's have taken over McKenzie's; Dyson's have taken over Organ's, Northern and Mylon's; and that's just the top 5 operators.

I'm not aware of any rumoured upcomings, but given what they have done in just the past two years, it's reasonable to expect that more will follow.[/quote][/quote]

It was Kyneton Bus Lines that Dysons took over, not Organs. They also took over Young at Heart tours around the same time.
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Re: Victoria's top 20 largest bus/coach operators

Post by MAN 16.242 »

Bus Bro wrote:
It was Kyneton Bus Lines that Dysons took over, not Organs. They also took over Young at Heart tours around the same time.
I thought Dysons only purchased the fleet of Young At Heart Holidays, Vic, and not the company.
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Re: Victoria's top 20 largest bus/coach operators

Post by stajourneyman »

My mistake on Dysons/Organs (but I was in the neighbourhood!).

Thanks E.L.Wood for the clarification on East West. You have to wonder about the point of it's existence. They run separate runs with their own vehicles. Why not simply disolve the company, keep the runs they each operate and repaint the vehicles into their respective liveries.

I have added Midland and Reservoir's East West units to Reservoir's overall total, increasing the fleet from 48 to 76. I have also dropped any mention of East West on the Dyson/Reservoir joint venture (my name for them!) entry. Both these fleets have been repositioned in the list to reflect the amended fleet totals.

I have just now completed a top 50 list for Victoria. I'll hold that back for a week or so until the dust has settled on this one!
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