How navigating Sydney's transport networks will change for c

[boronia]

How navigating Sydney's transport networks will change for commuters

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/how ... 51w76.html

Detailed information about how many parking spaces are still free at a train station well before commuters drive there or, if train services are disrupted, advice about alternative journeys tailored to people's circumstances, instead of generic messages from a train guard.

These are some of the technology-driven changes to the public's daily experience of navigating the state's transport systems that Rodd Staples, the secretary of Transport for NSW, wants to come from a major shake up of the transport bureaucracy.

Mr Staples, a former head of Sydney's metro rail projects, said real-time data now had a major influence on people's travel patterns, leading them to think "what are my choices" rather than focusing on specific modes of transport such as trains or buses to get around.
Sydney's first fully automated metro train line opened last month.

Sydney's first fully automated metro train line opened last month.Credit:Yianni Aspradakis

Eighteen months since starting the role, Mr Staples wants Transport for NSW to do more to solve the overall transport needs of an area than a singular focus on improving a road or a rail line.
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"My aspiration is that more of the organisation proportionately is thinking about journey management rather than network and individual mode management," he said in an interview.

It helps to explain the rationale for stripping Roads and Maritime Services of its status as a standalone agency, and folding its staff and function into new divisions of Transport for NSW.
Transport for NSW secretary Rodd Staples.

Transport for NSW secretary Rodd Staples.Credit:Wolter Peeters

In a similar vein to using technology to give commuters a full range of transport options, Mr Staples wants to ensure multi-billion-dollar projects such as Sydney Metro West are built more in tandem with the development of other transport such as buses and light rail.

"When we engage with the community ... we won't go in and say, 'We're building a metro in isolation'. We'll go in and say, 'We're creating a place here – here's the metro as the centrepiece but here are the other parts we're looking at'," he said.
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The challenges to meeting commuters' rapidly changing expectations, while avoiding a blowout in the cost to taxpayers of transport services and encouraging the agency's 28,000-strong workforce to change the way they work over the coming years, are underscored in "sensitive' documents obtained by the Herald.

They show Transport for NSW estimates up to 25 per cent of work activities at the agency could be automated by 2028. It is a prediction that Mr Staples said was "not an unusual statistic" for many industries. "It's more of a top-down view on what might happen to the industry based on where trends are going globally," he said.

"What we're highlighting is in the back office where there might be a lot of manual processing of things at the moment – that could all become automated."

The Opal ticketing system has had a major impact on the workforce – and commuters' experience of travelling on trains, buses, light rail and ferries. A decade ago, the primary task of station staff was to sell tickets, collect cash and change sign boards when trains passed.
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"Yes, we reduced stations staff but we fundamentally changed their job and we asked them to become customer-facing people," Mr Staples said. "Everyone in the business needs to be prepared that the way they do their jobs could be different due to automation. That may mean some jobs aren't there and that may mean some people have got to do their job really differently."

The "reform program" outlined in the documents list a range of options for the agency to save billions of dollars annually within the next decade to avoid the cost to the government of transport services surging from $5.8 billion last year to $9.6 billion in 2028.

In return, Transport for NSW proposes reinvesting the funds saved into customer services and technology. The documents cite potential investments as a broader roll out of a digital train control system, and power and infrastructure upgrades which could allow "turn-up and go peak services across all of Sydney rail".

"What we are doing is we're investing in technologies within the Sydney Trains network to get more frequency and more capacity," Mr Staples said. "Personally I would love to see more screen doors on our station [platforms]. The technology will help us do that."

[neilrex]

Google and others always want to know where you are going and what you are going to do there.

Supposedly, this information is valuable to somebody.

I'm not really interested in giving Rodd Staples any more information about my plans than is absolutely necessary.

There seems to be some kind of push to promote free parking. There is advertising for the Opal-only car park at Manly Vale. There is promotion today for a supposed scheme that you can enquire how many free spaces at your local station car park.

I was at Gordon the other day. There is a three-story carpark between the shops and the rail line. Except for a small section which is leased to shopkeepers, this is a 2-hour car park intended for shoppers not commuters. There are 5 other carparks at Gordon intended for commuters. Anyway, the shopper carpark, which is over 30 years old, has just had its linemarking renewed, including stencilled numbers for every car space. I am rather suspicious of the purpose for doing this.

Meanwhile, a friend who lives closer to Gordon tells me that the tide-mark of 100% street parking occupancy now reaches 900 metres from the station. That's an increase of more than 100 metres from last year.

[boronia]

If there is no parking available, people manage to make other arrangements to get to a station. Once you start attracting people to drive, supply is always going to become less than demand.

I'm not sure why free parking is even necessary in places like Manly Vale or Cremorne when there is more than adequate bus services.

I don't see why people can't accept planning their activities around available bus services, rather than expecting bus services to fit their personal needs.

[Transtopic]

I'm in two minds about this. I live 600m from Epping Station and our street, which has unrestricted parking, is filled up with mostly commuter parking from early morning on week-days. I thought it might ease off with the opening of Metro Northwest, but this hasn't happened. We are a two car family with only room for one off-street car space. It's a pain in the arse when you come home in the late afternoon, or earlier, and there's no parking available in the street, without having to walk some distance from further away, which is difficult for me because of mobility issues. My wife is involved with a book club amongst other things and she can never host a meeting at home because of the limited if any parking available in the street for visitors.

On the other hand, I can see the logic of encouraging commuters to drive to their nearest station to catch a train and create greater public transport patronage in the process, rather than driving all the way on congested roads to reach their destination. Theoretically speaking, providing more off-street parking at purpose built commuter car parks adjoining or close to stations should free up parking on streets close to the station for the convenience of local residents. However, that has to be weighed up against the increased congestion surrounding the concentrated access to a commuter car park or if in fact it makes any difference.

Epping now comes wholly within the jurisdiction of Parramatta Council and it has firmly rejected any suggestion of building a commuter carpark because of the existing significant traffic congestion through the Town Centre, which has already been well documented. Similarly in Eastwood, where Transport for NSW has already allocated funds for a commuter carpark, Ryde Council has rejected it because of traffic congestion issues. However, IMO this was more to do with politics, when the Labor Mayor Jerome Laxale was running against the Liberal incumbent, Victor Dominello, who was subsequently re-elected. Where this ends up still remains to be seen.

I honestly don't know what the solution is. For example, when you look at how quickly the large commuter carpark at Leppington on the SWRL fills up, overflowing into local streets, what more needs to be done? It could possibly be building larger commuter carparks at the expense of increased local congestion, providing more local bus feeder services or in the case of the SWRL, extending the line further into its catchment area to avoid concentration on the current terminus, or a combination of all options. I welcome your thoughts.

[lunchbox]

The Secretary of Transport for NSW, Mr. Staples, is to be commended for his holistic, ahead-of-the-pack approach to future transport services in Sydney ("Real-time data to shake up city transport networks", Sydney Morning Herald, 24 June). However, he must take care to ensure that any tailored, real-time service information [b]is available to all[/b], and not just those whose eyes are glued to their mobile phones.

The easy use of public transport in Sydney must not be dependent on one having full-time access to the internet!

At present, his team is alarmingly dysfunctional. It took out a very expensive "Herald" front page advertisement declaring "Sydney Metro now open"on Friday 21.6.19, then closed down the entire Metro for a whole weekend, with almost no warning, the following day, 22 + 23.6.19. The multi-billion dollar train line had only been open for a month.

Labor didn't have to shut down their Eastern Suburbs Railway so soon after they opened it, exactly forty years ago, on 23 June 1979.

[moa999]

When was the first trackwork shutdown of the ESR then?
And how long was it shut for when Redfern station finally opened and it got connected to Illawarra?

The trackwork schedule had been on the TfNSW website for some weeks afaik, and I suspect also advertised at the relevant stations.

[boronia]

Guess you mean the ESR (The LR hasn't opened yet)?

The line was connected from the start (how else would they get trains in there?) but IIRC initially just ran as shuttles from BJ to Central

[BroadGauge]

Labor didn't have to shut down their Eastern Suburbs Railway so soon after they opened it, exactly forty years ago, on 23 June 1979.

If you have to make this a political thing, then...

The ECRL opened on February 23rd 2009, under the Keneally Labor Government, and operated for 19 days until the first trackwork shutdown on the weekend of 14/15 March 2009, as reported on this board back then: http://www.busaustralia.com/forum/viewt ... 58#p448058

The North West Metro opened on May 26th 2019, under the Berejiklian Liberal Government, and operated for 26 days until the first trackwork shutdown on the weekend of 22/23 June 2019.

An objective observer would say that both examples are really just much of a muchness and very much in the same category.

[boronia]

I'm in two minds about this. I live 600m from Epping Station and our street, which has unrestricted parking, is filled up with mostly commuter parking from early morning on week-days. I thought it might ease off with the opening of Metro Northwest, but this hasn't happened. We are a two car family with only room for one off-street car space. It's a pain in the arse when you come home in the late afternoon, or earlier, and there's no parking available in the street, without having to walk some distance from further away, which is difficult for me because of mobility issues. My wife is involved with a book club amongst other things and she can never host a meeting at home because of the limited if any parking available in the street for visitors.

On the other hand, I can see the logic of encouraging commuters to drive to their nearest station to catch a train and create greater public transport patronage in the process, rather than driving all the way on congested roads to reach their destination. Theoretically speaking, providing more off-street parking at purpose built commuter car parks adjoining or close to stations should free up parking on streets close to the station for the convenience of local residents. However, that has to be weighed up against the increased congestion surrounding the concentrated access to a commuter car park or if in fact it makes any difference.

Epping now comes wholly within the jurisdiction of Parramatta Council and it has firmly rejected any suggestion of building a commuter carpark because of the existing significant traffic congestion through the Town Centre, which has already been well documented. Similarly in Eastwood, where Transport for NSW has already allocated funds for a commuter carpark, Ryde Council has rejected it because of traffic congestion issues. However, IMO this was more to do with politics, when the Labor Mayor Jerome Laxale was running against the Liberal incumbent, Victor Dominello, who was subsequently re-elected. Where this ends up still remains to be seen.

I honestly don't know what the solution is. For example, when you look at how quickly the large commuter carpark at Leppington on the SWRL fills up, overflowing into local streets, what more needs to be done? It could possibly be building larger commuter carparks at the expense of increased local congestion, providing more local bus feeder services or in the case of the SWRL, extending the line further into its catchment area to avoid concentration on the current terminus, or a combination of all options. I welcome your thoughts.

In many areas, councils put time limits on streets close to stations to deter all day commuter parking. Perhaps you need to do some lobbying.

The problem often seems to be that these car parks attract motorists from well outside the station catchments. In places like Eastwood and Epping there should be bus services available to encourage people to leave their cars at home, or street park along the route without impacting on residents.

[Transtopic]

In many areas, councils put time limits on streets close to stations to deter all day commuter parking. Perhaps you need to do some lobbying.

I already have in a submission to Paramatta Council's recent Epping Traffic Study. We're just outside the restricted parking zones, being 600m from the station, which is about an 8 minute walk. All the restricted zones do is to force long term parkers further out, even if it is a longer walk.

The problem often seems to be that these car parks attract motorists from well outside the station catchments. In places like Eastwood and Epping there should be bus services available to encourage people to leave their cars at home, or street park along the route without impacting on residents.

Eastwood and Epping already have extensive local and regional bus networks which feed commuters into the respective stations, with some overlapping. I thought that the Metro Northwest might take some pressure off Epping particularly, as commuters from the North West who previously drove to the station, can now catch the train further up the line. So far, that doesn't seemed to have occurred, although it could change as travel patterns settle down. Eastwood gets a lot of commuters from Dundas and parts of Carlingford on the western side of the rail line and Epping gets commuters from the likes of North Rocks as well as Carlingford. Existing bus services already service these areas, but it seems many still prefer to drive to the station. The only solution I can see is to implement restricted parking well beyond a reasonable walking distance from the station and those who currently drive might think twice about it and catch the bus instead. It goes without saying that local residents should be entitled to some form of parking permits.

[neilrex]

Some observations on this topic.

Feeder buses suck, they really do. When I was a young worker, the 4 km feeder bus trip took longer than the 20 km train trip. And was not cheap. First thing I did when I got a car, was start driving to the station. That changed a 45 minute trip to a 4 minute trip. And it would be worse now, as feeder buses in many areas have been cut back. And, if you need to go somewhere other than straight home after work, you can immediately get on your way.

Unlike the era of one car families, people have multiple cars now, and might as well use them.

It's an issue at places like Gordon, people from places like Newport can stolidly monopolise street parking near Gordon 2500 hours a year, free, if someone from Gordon wants to visit Newport Beach it is $8 an hour.

Building more station parking faces big cost problems for the land and construction. Gordon is unusual. the wide corridor enables 7 different car parks next to the railway. None of the other stations between Waitara and North Sydney have room for this. In Melbourne, there is a lot of parking near railway tracks.

I think the Government should be charging 3-4 dollars a day for parking at places like Gordon. This money should be accumulated to fund conversion of some of the carparks to multi-deck. At the margins, it might convince a few more people to try the buses. The route along Mona Vale Road seems to be increasing in popularity. I caught a bus towards Mona Vale recently which had 23 people on it, most of them were going to the business park at the corner of Forest Way.

Maybe the government should legalize Segways and electric scooters.

If you were in London, you would not need to drive 3-6 km from St Ives to Gordon, because there would be a railway line at St Ives.

[neilrex]

two other observations.

Better pedestrian access to stations. It is ridiculous that the most accessible station is Medlow Bath. This also applies to bus stops. Its no good having bus stops on both sides of a main road, if there is no pedestrian crossing opportunity nearby.

Sydney is now congested in many areas at all times of the day. Even if you are travelling outside rush hours, the option to use the train is restricted by the inability to access the stations due to unobtainability of parking after 6:30 AM.

[tonyp]

Some observations on this topic.

Feeder buses suck, they really do.

You can't make that a blanket statement. In some cities they're planned and run very well, in others they're poor. If they're done well they're good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaArj_zjRtc

In this clip there was a third alternative that wasn't canvassed - driving from home to P+R at Clarkson Station. It probably wouldn't have made a lot of time difference, at most perhaps catching the previous train 5 minutes earlier, depending how much time the carpark/walk takes compared to the bus dropping at the station entrance. A local TV station should try the same comparo for Sydney NW, it would be interesting.

Good planning will find a balance that, in particular, doesn't overwhelm and devalue the quality of town centres and their surrounds. Commuter parking typically occupies valuable land that has far better potential economic uses, unless it's in a more isolated location. Thus, the best potential for commuter parking is at what the British call Parkway Stations that are located in an open area rather than in a town centre. There are some examples such as Tallawong and Kellyville on the NW metro and also the north-south line in Perth which is designed very much on this principle. In town centres you really need to put the brakes on them and thus you naturally get capacity restrictions and you really need a good feeder bus system (frequent, fast and dense) to make up for it. In addition, you need resident/commercial parking restrictions on streets leading away from the station to the point where the commuter parking tidemark fades out. Residents will typically be fleeced a heavy annual fee by the local council for this, but that's the trade-off. It all needs to be well-managed by state governments and local councils working together.

[boronia]

I pass a large commuter car park on my way to work in the outer western suburbs. It is usually full by 8.15 and there are cars parking in the approach road, unrestricted about 500 m long. The car park has been expanded 3 times in the last 10-12 years, but it took only a few weeks before it filled up again and cars were back on the approach road.

I see cars coming in of a morning, they drive through up to three levels looking for a vacant space, then give up and go back to the approach road (and maybe beyond if that is full). How much time does that waste, and do they miss their train? What happens at other stations where there is no overflow available?

So they might decide to come in earlier in the morning to ensure getting a space; then they end up being earlier than they need at the station or their destination. How much of their time does this waste?

[tonyp]

I pass a large commuter car park on my way to work in the outer western suburbs. It is usually full by 8.15 and there are cars parking in the approach road, unrestricted about 500 m long. The car park has been expanded 3 times in the last 10-12 years, but it took only a few weeks before it filled up again and cars were back on the approach road.

I see cars coming in of a morning, they drive through up to three levels looking for a vacant space, then give up and go back to the approach road (and maybe beyond if that is full). How much time does that waste, and do they miss their train? What happens at other stations where there is no overflow available?

So they might decide to come in earlier in the morning to ensure getting a space; then they end up being earlier than they need at the station or their destination. How much of their time does this waste?

At what point do they then switch to Plan B: catch the feeder bus? It depends how good and convenient the feeder bus service is. They need to be running no more than 15 minutes apart. This seems to be regularly the case in Sydney and Perth. Melbourne, from what I've seen and heard, is nowhere near as good.

[rogf24]

Feeder buses in Australian cities are poor in general everywhere.

[tonyp]

Feeder buses in Australian cities are poor in general everywhere.

They do have a tough job to do, winding their way through the complex streets of large, sprawling, low-density suburbs trying to please everybody by passing close to them. No doubt that has stimulated the growth of on-demand services, which is not a solution for everybody. Still, they should maximise their frequency to compensate for that.

[boronia]

Perhaps a compromise would be to actually ban access to the car parks during the morning peaks, with adequate feeders to carry productive loads. This would ensure that very early commuters are not inconvenienced, and that late starters/finishers would also get access and not need to rely on buses later in the evening to get back home.

[boronia]

Feeder buses in Australian cities are poor in general everywhere.

They do have a tough job to do, winding their way through the complex streets of large, sprawling, low-density suburbs trying to please everybody by passing close to them. No doubt that has stimulated the growth of on-demand services, which is not a solution for everybody. Still, they should maximise their frequency to compensate for that.

In theory, dedicated feeder buses could run on main roads, with adequate on street, or even dedicated off street, parking close to the route.

[Cazza]

Route 990 in Perth runs additional short running services between it's outer terminus and Glendalough Station, with a bus every 7.5 mins or so (Off-Peak), in addition to 15 min headways to the City too: https://www.transperth.wa.gov.au/timeta ... 171008.pdf. Off-Peak, it's about 18 mins to the City by Route 990 from Glendalough Station, about 6 by train.

I guess it's a similar route profile to the 333 in Sydney (with the additional short running trips between North Bondi and BJ) and they both still serve as a feeder bus role during all times of the day.

I''m sure there are plenty of other examples.

[Linto63]

If you were in London, you would not need to drive 3-6 km from St Ives to Gordon, because there would be a railway line at St Ives.

But you probably wouldn't live on a half acre block, and if you did you would have that much money that a man named James would turn up each morning to chauffeur you to work in a Rolls-Royce. And if you did live a bit further afield where stations have carparks, you would be paying an additional £1,000 per annum for the privilege.