STA Observations 2019

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Stu
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Re: STA Observations 2019

Post by Stu »

Qantas94Heavy wrote:Spotted someone at about 8am this morning at Central with a stopwatch. Seemed like they were measuring dwell times for the 891 services, wonder who would be using such data?
TfNSW would be using that data to plan the CSELR timetable as it is most likely that the majority if not all routes 891 & 893 services will be replaced by the tram. This would probably not be the first time that such data has been recorded in this way at this location in recent years. This time of the year is also the busiest for universities, term 1 will see many students trial which way is the best way to travel to and from their respective universities. TfNSW also hire charter/coach operators at this time of the year to assist with the AM peak university bus services from Central Stn (Eddy Ave).

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tonyp
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Re: STA Observations 2019

Post by tonyp »

Stu wrote:
TfNSW would be using that data to plan the CSELR timetable as it is most likely that the majority if not all routes 891 & 893 services will be replaced by the tram. This would probably not be the first time that such data has been recorded in this way at this location in recent years. This time of the year is also the busiest for universities, term 1 will see many students trial which way is the best way to travel to and from their respective universities. TfNSW also hire charter/coach operators at this time of the year to assist with the AM peak university bus services from Central Stn (Eddy Ave).
Not sure what relevance the dwell times of a two-door, front door loading bus would have to those of a tram that is well-provisioned with doors as the Citadis are. Those trams will load and unload in a flash. Even if these buses have marshalls enabling two-door loading they will still be slow because of the limited number of doors and the steps inside. I sure hope that they don't set the CSELR timetable by bus dwells. The previously suggested tram running times are already too artificially slow.
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boronia
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Re: STA Observations 2019

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Stu wrote: TfNSW also hire charter/coach operators at this time of the year to assist with the AM peak university bus services from Central Stn (Eddy Ave).
In previous years, UNSW, or the student's association, hired supplementary buses for the PM peaks during March. AFIK independently of TfNSW.
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Re: STA Observations 2019

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The trams had better be more frequent at that time or we're going to have the situation of students taking over the service from everyone else at those times. Maybe they should retain the 861 buses for that reason.
Last edited by Swift on Wed Feb 27, 2019 5:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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swtt
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Re: STA Observations 2019

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Swift wrote:The trams had better be more frequent at that time or we're going to have the situation of students taking over the service from everyone else at those times.
As it's been mentioned here before - it's unlikely that ALL bus services will be cancelled.

Especially the 891.

However, it will allow many of the current buses to be redeployed, such as even more frequent 891 services or more frequent 393s. Cleveland St patronage won't be able to move to the LR - there'll still be demand there.

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boronia
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Re: STA Observations 2019

Post by boronia »

Swift wrote:The trams had better be more frequent at that time or we're going to have the situation of students taking over the service from everyone else at those times. Maybe they should retain the 861 buses for that reason.
This already happens with buses along Anzac Pde, esp late afternoon and around 8-9 PM.
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Re: STA Observations 2019

Post by Swift »

boronia wrote:
Swift wrote:The

This already happens with buses along Anzac Pde, esp late afternoon and around 8-9 PM.
Are the trams so flexible with frequency though? I was under the impression they had pretty rigid maximum frequency.
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tonyp
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Re: STA Observations 2019

Post by tonyp »

Even if they don't want to tackle the two minute headways along George St that the line is designed for yet, there's nothing to stop them (bar the as yet unknown traffic light cycles) from doing four minute headways on each branch and turning every second tram back at Central. Most of the students come through Central.
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Re: STA Observations 2019

Post by Transport Buff »

Just found this on Anytrip. Says it is a Temporary Bus Operator. I wonder if it is a B-Line MAN Gemilang on a rare sight/trip, or one of the new Forest MAN Gemilangs.
https://anytrip.com.au/?searchString=Ry ... 154055%2F0
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Petarkco
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Re: STA Observations 2019

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Passengerless bus caught fire on the Warringah Freeway:
https://twitter.com/7NewsSydney/status/ ... 9083792384

Stu
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Re: STA Observations 2019

Post by Stu »

boronia wrote:
Stu wrote: TfNSW also hire charter/coach operators at this time of the year to assist with the AM peak university bus services from Central Stn (Eddy Ave).
In previous years, UNSW, or the student's association, hired supplementary buses for the PM peaks during March. AFIK independently of TfNSW.
This still happens although TfNSW have been a bit more proactive in recent times. Without going to far off track, TfNSW will also be liaising more with charter operators when it comes to emergency rail hiring services instead of relying almost 100% on contract region operators.

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Re: STA Observations 2019

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Petarkco wrote:Passengerless bus caught fire on the Warringah Freeway:
https://twitter.com/7NewsSydney/status/ ... 9083792384
State Transit up to their old shenanigans leaving their engines starving of oil?
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Re: STA Observations 2019

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Petarkco wrote:Passengerless bus caught fire on the Warringah Freeway:
https://twitter.com/7NewsSydney/status/ ... 9083792384
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Re: STA Observations 2019

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Thanks Stu.
There are various times,especially at school peak where the contract operators just have not got the buses and more paticularily the drivers to do emergency rail.
The various charter operators,especially the better quality ones, have better availability of buses and drivers.It must be a nightmare at times covering those services in a hurry.
In Melbourne Metro Trains have an interesting contracting arrangement with mainly charter operators where by these operators have specific low floors available with drivers to be pressed into service within I think 10 minutes of being notified by Metro of an issue on a suburban line.At least 8 operators have such contracts for different suburban line segments.
There does not seem to be an arrangement like that in Sydney from what I can figure.

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tonyp
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Re: STA Observations 2019

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burrumbus wrote:Thanks Stu.
There are various times,especially at school peak where the contract operators just have not got the buses and more paticularily the drivers to do emergency rail.
The various charter operators,especially the better quality ones, have better availability of buses and drivers.It must be a nightmare at times covering those services in a hurry.
In Melbourne Metro Trains have an interesting contracting arrangement with mainly charter operators where by these operators have specific low floors available with drivers to be pressed into service within I think 10 minutes of being notified by Metro of an issue on a suburban line.At least 8 operators have such contracts for different suburban line segments.
There does not seem to be an arrangement like that in Sydney from what I can figure.
The Melbourne arrangement sounds good. More often than not a charter operator will come up with single door, high-floor coaches that are completely inappropriate for these sort of services.

Unfortunately the five Nowra artics would take more than ten minutes to reach Sydney!
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boronia
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Re: STA Observations 2019

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burrumbus wrote:In Melbourne Metro Trains have an interesting contracting arrangement with mainly charter operators where by these operators have specific low floors available with drivers to be pressed into service within I think 10 minutes of being notified by Metro of an issue on a suburban line.At least 8 operators have such contracts for different suburban line segments.
There does not seem to be an arrangement like that in Sydney from what I can figure.
Do these operators get paid to have these buses/drivers hanging around on standby?

Back in my coaching days in Sydney, we would occasionally get calls direct from "railway operations" to provide coaches at short notice for emergencies.

When you consider that probably less than 5% of pax need a low floor, a high floor coach for the other 95% keeps people moving.
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Stu
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Re: STA Observations 2019

Post by Stu »

^ Yes, there is a separate rate of pay for buses that are on stand by.

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Re: STA Observations 2019

Post by Linto63 »

burrumbus wrote:In Melbourne Metro Trains have an interesting contracting arrangement with mainly charter operators where by these operators have specific low floors available with drivers to be pressed into service within I think 10 minutes of being notified by Metro of an issue on a suburban line.At least 8 operators have such contracts for different suburban line segments.
Would cost a bit, even if there is no callout, there are the driver's wages (I doubt too many are going to just sit in the mess room all day on the off chance they might get a paid job) and if it a dedicated vehicle, the associated costs.
tonyp wrote:More often than not a charter operator will come up with single door, high-floor coaches that are completely inappropriate for these sort of services.
The vast majority of passengers are likely to be able bodied enough for this not to be an issue. Obviously alternative arrangements need be made for those who aren't.
boronia wrote:Do these operators get paid to have these buses/drivers hanging around on standby?
The operator probably gets a lesser call out fee and only gets to charge for the limited mileage it may do on the day. From speaking to somebody who used to do it a few years ago, the driver gets the same rate whether on the road or doing the crossword.

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tonyp
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Re: STA Observations 2019

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I wasn't thinking so much of accessibility as the unsuitability of these buses for constant set down pick up work.
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Re: STA Observations 2019

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Most of the operators with these contracts utilise the drivers on depot duties,workshop or admin.They do not sit around playing cards.They work.
Most of the operators have purchased GOOD QUALITY second hand low floor buses,especially the ex Perth Mercedes 0405 NH/Volgren's.
I am not privy to the financial arrangements but there would clearly be a flagfall charge for the vehicle which would cover the drivers wages,plus the vehicle standing costs.
Metro Trains also contract in taxi/mini bus operators to provide accessible services on the suburban line segments.At least 3 operators have such contracts.
I regard this contracting as smart operation by Metro Trains,providing relatively cheap(in the overall context of the huge costs of train operation)operating insurance in the event of issues on the rail system.
The number of pax requiring a low floor would constitute around 2% of the total patronage in my view.The vast majority of low floor buses are not low floor buses anyway with only the front door to rear door half of the bus a low floor.
True low floor operation with all door boarding /unloading of course is most appropriate for intensive corridor urban service.The vast majority of suburban route service buses do not get loadings anywhere near the capacity of the bus ,excepting at school times.Typically 10 % of the capacity of the bus.Even then many buses only operate at one third to half capacity.
The rush to low floor operation created by government legislation has really failed to build patronage numbers in many suburban and country areas.The real key is personalised on demand services in many areas.Creating services that are relevant in taking pax to and from their destinations is really more important than operating a full size low floor bus banging up and down suburban routes with little or no patronage.

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Re: STA Observations 2019

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This week, university classes resumed at Macquarie University for semester 1. I had two 9:00am lectures this week, one on Monday and one on Wednesday.
To get to the university in the busy morning peak, I take the M54 from Carlingford Station to the university campus, after getting dropped off at Carlingford at around 7:45am, in order to arrive early before the lecture commences.
As per usual, most(if not all) Macquarie Park bound M54s bewteen 07:30 and 08:30 are delayed due to the heavily saturated traffic on Pennant Hills Road between North Parramatta and Carlingford, as well as dwelling at stops for loading and unloading passengers including school students. By the time the M54 reaches my stop at Carlingford Station (stop 211840) the bus (which is usually a rigid) is absolutely chockers with few available seats remaining and half the length of the aisle occupied by standees. If you are waiting at the following stops further along the route between Carlingford Court and Epping Station, the possibility of an M54 service that has enough spare capacity to pick you up from your stop is either hit or miss.
On Monday, the M54 service that I caught reached full capacity at Carlingford Road opp Hepburn Ave and skipped all the stops to Epping Station, leaving passengers stranded at their stops. The Wednesday M54 service that I caught reached full capacity only one stop later at the stop after Carlingford Bowling Club, forcing the driver to skip a notable patronage generator, the Rembrandt Street stop near Carlingford Court, several bewildered commuters and run non-stop via its usual route to Epping Station where passengers flooded on the footpaths and staircases of Beecroft Road. This, in turn was compounded by the fact that significant congestion at the approaches to Epping Bridge causes the M54 (and other services) to be delayed up to 10-20 minutes.
In total, I measured the runtimes for both trips; Monday's trip took 38 minutes, Wednesday's trip took 40 minutes.
In addition, the growth of apartments in Carlingford and Epping along the route, as well as the lack of a direct rail link between Parramatta, Carlingford, Epping and Macquarie Uni exacerbate the already heavy demand between Carlingford and Epping, where the bulk of demand is greatest.
I'm not optimistic with the addition of the Parramatta Light Rail to the PT mix, as it will terminate abruptly at Carlingford Station, where it will simply dump extra passengers at Carlingford and oversaturate the already busy M54 patronage. In the off peak, patronage on the M54 is reasonably decent, with the majority of seats occupied by passengers.
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Re: STA Observations 2019

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I don't know if anybody appreciates the huge wave of demand that will hit Sydney's buses in coming years. This will be generated, not only by population growth but also by people moving across from driving to public transport because congestion and lack of parking will make driving unviable for many more people. My view of the future of on-demand is that it will certainly find its market in rural areas but it will play no more than a minor role in the cities.

Meanwhile the inadequacy of the design and method of operation of full size buses will become increasingly acute as an issue in coming years, as will the shortage of high-capacity buses, particularly artics. The planners are telling the transport people what lies ahead, but the transport people are not acting on it quickly enough.
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Re: STA Observations 2019

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That mess between Carlo and Epping is testament to continued lack of planning around developments and the missed opportunity of not getting the Parramatta to Epping section of the Chatswood rail link complete. That light rail following the same useless alignment on the Carlingford branch is missing the target. It's lazy planning and is reminiscent of the Inner West Light Rail making use of the former goods railway, which the Carlo line was.
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Re: STA Observations 2019

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tonyp wrote:I don't know if anybody appreciates the huge wave of demand that will hit Sydney's buses in coming years. This will be generated, not only by population growth but also by people moving across from driving to public transport because congestion and lack of parking will make driving unviable for many more people. My view of the future of on-demand is that it will certainly find its market in rural areas but it will play no more than a minor role in the cities.

Meanwhile the inadequacy of the design and method of operation of full size buses will become increasingly acute as an issue in coming years, as will the shortage of high-capacity buses, particularly artics. The planners are telling the transport people what lies ahead, but the transport people are not acting on it quickly enough.
Richard's account really highlights the failure of the central planning model in NSW practised since 2007 ,not only on the long term heavy rail/metro plans,but the short term operation of buses on particular intensive urban corridors whereby intensive apartment building has been allowed to happen,but the bus services to move them quickly and efficiently have not followed in a timely way.That has happened in various areas over Sydney.But in many areas over Sydney gross over capacity on bus routes exists.
Of course made worse by arcane operating practices by several bus operators,notably STA and to a lesser extent Hillsbus.Will the central planning model deliver the right capacity to the right areas in the future ??
Like Tony I just do not think that it will happen and Sydney will have huge capacity issues on particular corridors.Perhaps TFNSW should allow the market to provide capacity in peak on various corridors ??

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Re: STA Observations 2019

Post by Stonesourscotty »

With the sheer volume of stationlink buses going out of service along the m54 and 545 routes could they not run part routes on the way back to the depot to plug gaps left by Ryde's failings??

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