STA Observations 2019

[Linto63]

[It's a waste of money and resources and it serves only a small group of individuals during the day at a cost to everybody else.
It would be far better to get the names and addresses of these people and pay for Uber to take them only in the times and places the buses run. Trouble is that would be an admission the service is a waste of time.

While not the busiest route and certainly goes around the houses effectively being a couple of shorter routes combined, far from being alone in not being heavily used. Far better to have one milk run than diverting buses off main corridors.

[Swift]

It's a 1 hour trip of 80% tight windy back streets with very slow running and and constant pedal two step. All that wear and tear, brake pad material, diesel fuel and driver wages moving an 11 tonne vehicle for sometimes zero passengers. This scandalous waste of a run must be abolished -tonight!
Leave the 261 to cover the Lane Cove catchment , extend the 267 from Crows Nest to Wollstonecraft loop, make the 265 a wharf run between Crows Nest and Greenwich wharf in the peaks and extend an existing route to service McMahons Pt in the peaks.

[BroadGauge]

It's a 1 hour trip of 80% tight windy back streets with very slow running and and constant pedal two step. All that wear and tear, brake pad material, diesel fuel and driver wages moving an 11 tonne vehicle for sometimes zero passengers. This scandalous waste of a run must be abolished -tonight!
Leave the 261 to cover the Lane Cove catchment , extend the 267 from Crows Nest to Wollstonecraft loop, make the 265 a wharf run between Crows Nest and Greenwich wharf in the peaks and extend an existing route to service McMahons Pt in the peaks.

Perhaps it still exists just to keep bus drivers well trained and experienced in negotiating tight and narrow streets, as well as in memorising complicated route structures

Some sort of paratransit service could easily replace a lot of runs. I did like an idea that I read somewhere else recently of replacing some of the poorly used charity bus services with a subsidised rideshare service available at times equivalent to a bus timetable, like say once an hour, which would eliminate the problem of such a service becoming too popular as happened in parts of the US.

[3808]

The 265 is a combination of the southern parts of the former 266 (Chatswood to Lane Cove, via Northbridge and Cammeray!) and the former longer version of the 267 (which used to be Chatswood to McMahons Point, also via Northbridge and Cammeray, not Just Chatswood to Crows Nest as at present). Without it, there would be no service from Wollstonecraft and Waverton to Crows Nest, and also nothing for Osborne Park.

[Linto63]

The Greenwich diversion was added in about 1990 after North & Western's route 99 from Crows Nest ceased.

[Swift]

The 265 is a combination of the southern parts of the former 266 (Chatswood to Lane Cove, via Northbridge and Cammeray!) and the former longer version of the 267 (which used to be Chatswood to McMahons Point, also via Northbridge and Cammeray, not Just Chatswood to Crows Nest as at present). Without it, there would be no service from Wollstonecraft and Waverton to Crows Nest, and also nothing for Osborne Park.

We can't and don't cover every neighborhood. We need to distribute resources where they are going to be used instead of continuing somewhere because it was a patronage generator in the 60s but no longer.

[3808]

The Greenwich diversion was added in about 1990 after North & Western's route 99 from Crows Nest ceased.

Yes - I'd forgotten that the 99 was also a part of it.

[Linto63]

We can't and don't cover every neighborhood. We need to distribute resources where they are going to be used instead of continuing somewhere because it was a patronage generator in the 60s but no longer.

Ever caught the 265 by chance? Not Sydney's busiest route, but doesn't run empty as you imply it does.

[Swift]

Ever caught the 265 by chance? Not Sydney's busiest route, but doesn't run empty as you imply it does.

I drove it and what a disgrace of a run and oh so insipid it was too. If I picked up more than 15 people I would have been happy but alas only in the peaks could hope to have more than three people at any one time.
I'm sure the any political clout keeping it operating has all but gone away. Come on STA start with baby steps. Scale it back a bit. Cancel some runs. Truncate a few. Then cancel more. Like boiling a frog.

[Ray]

But at the time had Sydney's most scenic terminus in McMahon's Point. People come from all over the world to see that view.

[Swift]

I beg to differ. Cremorne is nicer and better quality passengers as well.

[Ray]

Cremorne's okay. But there is no view to the Bridge or Opera House and the harbour view is obscured by a structure along the waterfront. It's pretty enough, but nothing like the panorama at McMahons Point.

I vaguely remember M doing weekend 225s in the old days, for some reason.

Athol Wharf is the prettiest of the North Sydney wharves. All of them have character, but only Milsons Point and McMahons Pt have really sweeping harbour views.

The late night 254s and 291s must be really spectacular - McMahons Pt never had late services before.

[Swift]

Yes Willow had a Sunday shift with 225s in the arvo and oh how I loved them.
Probably a combination of something different and much nicer passengers except one lady who I won't go into! She just took a dislike to me because I wouldn't open the doors well before the departure time! Didn't bother me though.
Passengers from McMahon's Pt were totally different and were like cold fish and often a little strange in comparison. That probably coloured my "view".
Yep, definitely , McMahons is up there.

[Swift]

It's a 1 hour trip of 80% tight windy back streets with very slow running and and constant pedal two step. All that wear and tear, brake pad material, diesel fuel and driver wages moving an 11 tonne vehicle for sometimes zero passengers. This scandalous waste of a run must be abolished -tonight!
Leave the 261 to cover the Lane Cove catchment , extend the 267 from Crows Nest to Wollstonecraft loop, make the 265 a wharf run between Crows Nest and Greenwich wharf in the peaks and extend an existing route to service McMahons Pt in the peaks.

Perhaps it still exists just to keep bus drivers well trained and experienced in negotiating tight and narrow streets, as well as in memorising complicated route structures

Much as loathed the run, I did enjoy taking a Scania low floor on it just for the challenge and amusement of walking this high powered 12m behemoth though some of the streets that seemed absurd to be taking it through.
Yet the champion would do it with relative ease with the help of the raising feature. The kneeling was very handy at some of the stops too.
I would have hated to learn this route from scratch. I had already learnt the two portions of the routes this had combined.

[Ray]

My first experience on the 265 was on Mk 2 2211 (yes, it was briefly at M). Was impressed with how the driver confidently shot around the backstreets and how we went down some very narrow streets....but then a passenger suddenly got up to complain that we were off route!

[Red and Cream]

But at the time had Sydney's most scenic terminus in McMahon's Point. People come from all over the world to see that view.

I quite enjoyed driving the 267 Chatswood- McMahons Point in the early sixties although the buses were rather different to the vehicles mentioned. Leyland and AEC 31 seaters and if you were (un)lucky even a Daimler, were the mainstay of the service in those days. Willoughby run M46 was the run i mostly picked up after taking a staff bus to Willoughby and Mowbray Road at 2.16PM to relieve the driver on his trip from McMahons Point and then two round trips followed with the final 6.22PM departure from Chatswood only timetabled to operate to the corner of Edinburgh Road and Eastern Valley Way then special to the shed.
Ray is right about the scenic position of the terminus as it was always a pleasure to stand on the foreshore and watch the activity on the harbour.

Its a pity it was not a better day instead of overcast when i drove 2863 that day but you get a sense of the great view of the harbour you had at McMahons Point.

[Swift]

They were a really peculiar bus. Way over engined for their size. The VSTMs are similar in that respect.
That cab must have got hot with the big engine under a flimsy cover and nowhere for the radiant heat to go except all in the driver's work space.
As least a half cab keeps the driver largely insulated and midst of the engine covering is external.
Cute buses all the same.

[Ray]

So in the old days (pre-Merc), full size buses, whether single or double deck, never ran to McMahons Point? That's really interesting.

Then again, I thought the days of full size buses on the 225s etc. was over when they got the MAN Midis. That didn't last long.

[Swift]

So in the old days (pre-Merc), full size buses, whether single or double deck, never ran to McMahons Point? That's really interesting.

Then again, I thought the days of full size buses on the 225s etc. was over when they got the MAN Midis. That didn't last long.

The 31 "sweaters" were still going as the first Mercedes were coming online. The last stragglers survived until late 1979 IIRC when they would have been receiving their 22## mark IIs, though I'm sure Leopards and Worldmasters also saw use after the rock excavations took place at Musgrave St wharf.

[tonyp]

They were a really peculiar bus. Way over engined for their size. The VSTMs are similar in that respect.
That cab must have got hot with the big engine under a flimsy cover and nowhere for the radiant heat to go except all in the driver's work space.
As least a half cab keeps the driver largely insulated and midst of the engine covering is external.
Cute buses all the same.

The chassis were imported to be built as double deckers but by the time they arrived, the decison had been made to have an all single-deck fleet, so these were adapted into this design for second-tier services. There was no separate driver's cab. At this time, almost all private buses were front-engined and I don't recall any particular issue with heat.

[Swift]

They were a really peculiar bus. Way over engined for their size. The VSTMs are similar in that respect.
That cab must have got hot with the big engine under a flimsy cover and nowhere for the radiant heat to go except all in the driver's work space.
As least a half cab keeps the driver largely insulated and midst of the engine covering is external.
Cute buses all the same.

At this time, almost all private buses were front-engined and I don't recall any particular issue with heat.

A woman inspector recalled the heat driving the front engine AECs like this.

[Daniel]

Having driven AEC 2878 about a fortnight ago, yes they generally feel hotter insider than an equivalent decker.

[boronia]

The driver's cab of a decker had limited headroom, and a full height bulkhead behind the driver. I would imagine this would contain heat more than in the more open environment of a 31 seater, even allowing for being exposed to the entire engine?

[Daniel]

Good point. The decker feels more ventilated though, with both cab side windows open the driver gets a strong cross breeze feeling which helps offset the engine heat.

[Swift]

Good point. The decker feels more ventilated though, with both cab side windows open the driver gets a strong cross breeze feeling which helps offset the engine heat.

How does RT 3708 "fare"?
I have been watching a lot of RM videos from the 1980s and notice many drivers have the sliding access door open.