W19 pre 890 amalgamation restrictions
- Campbelltown busboy
- Posts: 2129
- Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2013 1:23 pm
- Location: Ruse/Campbelltown City NSW
W19 pre 890 amalgamation restrictions
I was reading up the history of routes in region 15 on the sydneybusroutes website and came across the history of route 890 where I found out about the Farmborough Coaches route W19 that was retricted from carrying any passengers between Appin and Campbelltown witch happened upto the Busways amalgamation of routes W19/890 in December 1991 why did the W19 have those restrictions and why did it take Busways 6 months to complete the amalgamation of routes W19/890
- Fleet Lists
- Administrator
- Posts: 23803
- Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:49 pm
- Location: The Shire
Re: W19 pre 890 amalgamation restrictions
The list explains the restriction for W19 ie it was a Wollongong route which would have restrictions outside of the Wollongong area. And the six months would be the time it takes for all the paper work to have gone through, especially since it combined routes from two different districts.
Also the second date says "By that date" so it may have happened earlier.
Also the second date says "By that date" so it may have happened earlier.
Living in the Shire.
- boronia
- Posts: 21577
- Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 6:18 am
- Favourite Vehicle: Ahrens Fox; GMC PD4107
- Location: Sydney NSW
Re: W19 pre 890 amalgamation restrictions
It could be noted that similar restrictions applied in many areas where one operator's route encroached on another operator's "territory".
It's really only in the last few years where such restrictions have been eased.
It's really only in the last few years where such restrictions have been eased.
Preserving fire service history
@ The Museum of Fire.
@ The Museum of Fire.
Re: W19 pre 890 amalgamation restrictions
It still applies for example in Nowra where Kennedys services in the direction of Cambewarra have restrictions through the Shoal Bus area north of the river.boronia wrote:It could be noted that similar restrictions applied in many areas where one operator's route encroached on another operator's "territory".
It's really only in the last few years where such restrictions have been eased.
- Free Lance
- Posts: 486
- Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:39 pm
- Favourite Vehicle: Mercedes O305, m/o 3021
- Location: Campbelltown
Re: W19 pre 890 amalgamation restrictions
Back in my time at the STA there was also a service restriction on Route 136 west of Forest way, to/from Chatswood and operating through Forest territory.
I think is a restriction on Picton's 900 service operating north of Wire Land on Remembrance Dve (Camden) through to Campbelltown. (correct me if I am incorrect with either of these details).
I think is a restriction on Picton's 900 service operating north of Wire Land on Remembrance Dve (Camden) through to Campbelltown. (correct me if I am incorrect with either of these details).
- Fleet Lists
- Administrator
- Posts: 23803
- Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:49 pm
- Location: The Shire
Re: W19 pre 890 amalgamation restrictions
Same as STA route 487 once it entered the Punchbowl region its way to/from Bankstown. Punchbowl even threatened court action at one time when STA tried to relax this.
477/478 to Miranda also restricted once south of the Georges River.
These restrictions have all gone within the Metropolitan/Outer Metropolitan regions but I believe can still apply in regional areas such as mentioned by tonyp
477/478 to Miranda also restricted once south of the Georges River.
These restrictions have all gone within the Metropolitan/Outer Metropolitan regions but I believe can still apply in regional areas such as mentioned by tonyp
Living in the Shire.
- Campbelltown busboy
- Posts: 2129
- Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2013 1:23 pm
- Location: Ruse/Campbelltown City NSW
Re: W19 pre 890 amalgamation restrictions
I don’t think the Campbelltown-Picton 900 has any passenger restrictions if it does then Picton Buslines must restrict the number of passengers it can carry within the section between that area of Remembrance drive Camden and Campbelltown station I can remember seeing a 900 sitting on stand C at Campbelltown station on a Monday afternoon in early 2011 and the driver was allowing passengers to bored I don't know if Transport For NSW has now told Picton Buslines to not carry any passengers within that area of the route in both directionsFree Lance wrote:I think is a restriction on Picton's 900 service operating north of Wire Land on Remembrance Dve (Camden) through to Campbelltown. (correct me if I am incorrect with either of these details).
- Fleet Lists
- Administrator
- Posts: 23803
- Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:49 pm
- Location: The Shire
Re: W19 pre 890 amalgamation restrictions
There is nothing to stop them picking up at Campbelltown but if restrictions exist which may do, such passengers must travel at least to a point outside region 15 - nothing to do with the number of passengers. No mention of any restrictions in their timetable.
And getting back to the original point about route 890, once it was combined with W19, while it is stated that there were no longer any restrictions between Appin and Campbelltown, I suspect that route 890 would have had restrictions once it got into the Wollongong area as it was a Sydney route.
And getting back to the original point about route 890, once it was combined with W19, while it is stated that there were no longer any restrictions between Appin and Campbelltown, I suspect that route 890 would have had restrictions once it got into the Wollongong area as it was a Sydney route.
Living in the Shire.
- Free Lance
- Posts: 486
- Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:39 pm
- Favourite Vehicle: Mercedes O305, m/o 3021
- Location: Campbelltown
Re: W19 pre 890 amalgamation restrictions
The restriction allows for passengers travelling beyond Wire Lane on Remembrance Dve. ie Buslines cannot pick-up once they pass Wire Lane (inbound) but can set down, conversely when operating outbound services passengers cannot alight prior to Wire Lane. Thus passenger could join at Campbelltown and alight onto of Razorback with no issue or even join a service and travel to Narellan.
Re: W19 pre 890 amalgamation restrictions
Each operator's revenue came directly from fares. If another operator encroached on your territory, they were stealing money from you.Campbelltown busboy wrote:why did the W19 have those restrictions
With current metro contracts, fares all go to TfNSW, who pay pay operators for running services. It no longer matters (in a revenue sense) who gets the passenger.
gld
Re: W19 pre 890 amalgamation restrictions
Likewise North & Western's route 261 from Lane Cove to the cbd was prohibited from picking up inbound passengers from when it turned onto the Pacific Highway at Crows Nest and setting down on outbound services.
- Campbelltown busboy
- Posts: 2129
- Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2013 1:23 pm
- Location: Ruse/Campbelltown City NSW
Re: W19 pre 890 amalgamation restrictions
It also says that the original Campbelltown-Appin 890 was one of the runs included in the May 1985 Sydney route system numbering of the southern and eastern areas of route 93 so would the same restrictions have applied to Campbelltown Transit if they exstended the Campbelltown-Appin run of route 93 or the pre amalgamated Campbelltown-Appin 890 down to WollongongFleet Lists wrote:And getting back to the original point about route 890, once it was combined with W19, while it is stated that there were no longer any restrictions between Appin and Campbelltown, I suspect that route 890 would have had restrictions once it got into the Wollongong area as it was a Sydney route.
- Fleet Lists
- Administrator
- Posts: 23803
- Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:49 pm
- Location: The Shire
- boronia
- Posts: 21577
- Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 6:18 am
- Favourite Vehicle: Ahrens Fox; GMC PD4107
- Location: Sydney NSW
Re: W19 pre 890 amalgamation restrictions
As this service would be over 40 kms, different rules may apply. But there would still be restrictions within contracted areas, no carriage of passengers solely within such zones.
Preserving fire service history
@ The Museum of Fire.
@ The Museum of Fire.
- Campbelltown busboy
- Posts: 2129
- Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2013 1:23 pm
- Location: Ruse/Campbelltown City NSW
Re: W19 pre 890 amalgamation restrictions
The restriction thing might of still been still around today if Barrie Unsworth didn’t receonendate the reduction of regions in his 2005 review of the Sydney bus networkboronia wrote:As this service would be over 40 kms, different rules may apply. But there would still be restrictions within contracted areas, no carriage of passengers solely within such zones.
- Fleet Lists
- Administrator
- Posts: 23803
- Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:49 pm
- Location: The Shire
Re: W19 pre 890 amalgamation restrictions
If that report had not happened other things may have happened such as the fare restructure which was needed to get the Opal system working properly.
Living in the Shire.
Re: W19 pre 890 amalgamation restrictions
Back then, it was not the overall length of the route that was relevant, but whether all passengers travelled for at least 40km. But none of that applied to W19 and 890. It was simply, as has been mentioned, that one operator's territory or line of route, was protected from other operators carrying passengers wholly within the first operator's territory or line of route. This applied even though the two routes were from different transport districts. As has also been pointed out, under current contracts with TfNSW taking all the revenue, travelling restrictions protecting territories and lines of route no longer apply.boronia wrote:As this service would be over 40 kms, different rules may apply. But there would still be restrictions within contracted areas, no carriage of passengers solely within such zones.
For information about private & Government bus routes in Sydney, look at http://www.sydneybusroutes.com