The other option for the 453 is to cut it as passengers that live along the route can walk up to Forrest road to catch the 452 to Hurstville or Rockdale or walk to Queen Victoria street to catch the 446 to Kogarah or Bexly North or walk to Pericival street to catch the 455 to Hurstville or KogarahGlen wrote:453 in and out of Rockdale is an extremely poorly patronised route.
That's why it was reduced in 2012. It is too close to the railway line or 452.
Remnant routes that can be rationalised
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Re: Remnant routes that can be rationalised
Re: Remnant routes that can be rationalised
The route 478 extension to and from Miranda has been in operation for quite some time now and unfortunately has not grown patronage to the point of making it a full time service. Prior to the region 6 review on 2010, both inbound and outbound trips operated in two formats; either via Taren Pt loop or direct via Taren Pt Rd. it depended on the time of the day. For example, an AM outbound trip from Rockdale to Miranda would operate via Taren Pt loop (potential customers going shopping) and the return AM trip from Miranda to Rockdale would operate direct via Taren Pt Rd.
The region 6 service changes saw standardisation for the route 478 trips to and from Miranda.
- the loop was shortened. It used to begin from Toorak Ave, cross over (bridge) Taren Pt Rd and exit from Holt Rd on the other side of Taren Point Rd. The modified loop was simply enter and exit via Toorak Ave, this serves Taren Pt Primary and the retirement village.
- all trips operate via the Taren Pt loop, no more direct trips.
The age demographics in the area may play a role in patronage for bus services around Taren Pt, Sandringham, Sans Souci and Dolls Pt, routes 303 & X03 loadings are also very light, it's not until after Ramsgate that a few more passengers here and there will board the bus and by Kyeemagh the bus can be at least 1/2 full or 3/4 on a busy morning. The X03 PM outbound trip has average loadings with the vast majority of passengers alighting at the first set down stop at Mascot, from there onwards it's only a skeleton crew. The delays on Botany Rd and General Holmes Drive probably scares of potential patronage. On the contrary, routes 476 & 477 passenger loading are quite respectable during the peak periods.
The region 6 service changes saw standardisation for the route 478 trips to and from Miranda.
- the loop was shortened. It used to begin from Toorak Ave, cross over (bridge) Taren Pt Rd and exit from Holt Rd on the other side of Taren Point Rd. The modified loop was simply enter and exit via Toorak Ave, this serves Taren Pt Primary and the retirement village.
- all trips operate via the Taren Pt loop, no more direct trips.
The age demographics in the area may play a role in patronage for bus services around Taren Pt, Sandringham, Sans Souci and Dolls Pt, routes 303 & X03 loadings are also very light, it's not until after Ramsgate that a few more passengers here and there will board the bus and by Kyeemagh the bus can be at least 1/2 full or 3/4 on a busy morning. The X03 PM outbound trip has average loadings with the vast majority of passengers alighting at the first set down stop at Mascot, from there onwards it's only a skeleton crew. The delays on Botany Rd and General Holmes Drive probably scares of potential patronage. On the contrary, routes 476 & 477 passenger loading are quite respectable during the peak periods.
Re: Remnant routes that can be rationalised
Great summary Stu.Thanks.From my observations the 477 end from Rockdale and Kogarah generates good loadings all day,but the Miranda end is relatively quiet(10-15 per trip average).
I also think the higher income demographic in Sans Souci,Taren Point area plays a part too.
I also think the higher income demographic in Sans Souci,Taren Point area plays a part too.
Re: Remnant routes that can be rationalised
Some of the patronage on the 303 along the Grand Parade is due to school students and customers heading to UNSW. Reminded me was on the 7:03am Saturday from Mascot Botany Rd to Sans Souci. I was the only passenger all the way until I got off at Dolls Point. There were two old ladies who got off where I got on they appeared they were going to the Eastern Subs cemetery. I've even seen in peak hour after Zetland on the 303 it carries fresh air.
It would be understandable why the X03 has limited patronage southbound only one trip that X03 is essentially an express X09/X10. I can see in the future the X09/X10 be converted to all stops services to help manage demand on the all stops 309/310.
Can the 342 be dumped they should of used SELR as an excuse to cut it.
It would be understandable why the X03 has limited patronage southbound only one trip that X03 is essentially an express X09/X10. I can see in the future the X09/X10 be converted to all stops services to help manage demand on the all stops 309/310.
Can the 342 be dumped they should of used SELR as an excuse to cut it.
Re: Remnant routes that can be rationalised
Well one of the new Suburban routes in Sydney's Bus Future is a Bondi Junction to Miranda service via Eastgardens and the Airport. The map of the routes shows this one going via Rocky Point Rd, hinting at an extension/replacement of the 477.
Re: Remnant routes that can be rationalised
I really can't see why such a long service is a good idea.
Anyone literally travelling end-to-end would be on a train.
With those long routes, you have time-keeping issues in traffic. It also cannot be easy scheduling driver changes and breaks.
Furthermore, for people travelling a substantial portion of the route, like for example to UNSW from Ramsgate or Taren Point, then some of the detours are a disincentive. Travelling via the airport would add at least 15 minutes to the trip, compared to driving through the tunnel under the runway. If I lived somewhere like Ramsgate or Taren Point, and wanted to go to UNSW or the Randwick Hospital or Eastgardens, pfaffing around the airport wasting 30 minutes each and every day would be a huge disincentive if the alternative was driving. A more direct bus, on the other hand, might be competitive.
Since last year, there is effectively no financial penalty for customers from changing buses. In my opinion, you'd have a more reliable service if you had more frequent 400 buses from Bondi to Rockdale and more buses from Miranda to Rockdale, and you could adjust the frequency or operating hours to suit the demand, and you could have better timekeeping, and less flow-on effects from traffic disruptions.
Anyone literally travelling end-to-end would be on a train.
With those long routes, you have time-keeping issues in traffic. It also cannot be easy scheduling driver changes and breaks.
Furthermore, for people travelling a substantial portion of the route, like for example to UNSW from Ramsgate or Taren Point, then some of the detours are a disincentive. Travelling via the airport would add at least 15 minutes to the trip, compared to driving through the tunnel under the runway. If I lived somewhere like Ramsgate or Taren Point, and wanted to go to UNSW or the Randwick Hospital or Eastgardens, pfaffing around the airport wasting 30 minutes each and every day would be a huge disincentive if the alternative was driving. A more direct bus, on the other hand, might be competitive.
Since last year, there is effectively no financial penalty for customers from changing buses. In my opinion, you'd have a more reliable service if you had more frequent 400 buses from Bondi to Rockdale and more buses from Miranda to Rockdale, and you could adjust the frequency or operating hours to suit the demand, and you could have better timekeeping, and less flow-on effects from traffic disruptions.
Re: Remnant routes that can be rationalised
The Region 9 review from 2008 proposed that the 303 be re-routed to operate to Bondi Jct. I can't remember the exact directions although I do know that customers in the Sans Souci and surrounding areas were very much against this so the proposed change never became a reality.mandonov wrote:Well one of the new Suburban routes in Sydney's Bus Future is a Bondi Junction to Miranda service via Eastgardens and the Airport. The map of the routes shows this one going via Rocky Point Rd, hinting at an extension/replacement of the 477.
Last edited by Stu on Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Remnant routes that can be rationalised
That was a bit different in that people in Sans Souci and surrounding areas would have lost their direct service to the CBD. This latest proposal does not replace such a service.
Living in the Shire.
Re: Remnant routes that can be rationalised
I wouldn't call the 303 a direct CBD service considering it detours via Eastlakes, Kensington, Zetland then to the City. It's not as if it ran via Botany Rd or Southern Cross Drive to the City. Hence a deviation to Bondi Jn would of worked. Would it be viable to run the X03 via Southern Cross Drive outbound.
If a 477 was to run via the Airport towards Bondi Jn via Eastgardens it would essentially replace the 301s Eastgardens leg and some of the 400 Easties to BJ short workings.
If a 477 was to run via the Airport towards Bondi Jn via Eastgardens it would essentially replace the 301s Eastgardens leg and some of the 400 Easties to BJ short workings.
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Re: Remnant routes that can be rationalised
I was looking up bus routes in trip view came across route 708 and I thought of this thread
Why don’t Transport For NSW discontinue the 708 and absorb it into route 711 so then the Constitution Hill age care centre gets more then two buses a day 1 bus to Parramatta in the morning and 1 bus from Parramatta in the afternoon
Why don’t Transport For NSW discontinue the 708 and absorb it into route 711 so then the Constitution Hill age care centre gets more then two buses a day 1 bus to Parramatta in the morning and 1 bus from Parramatta in the afternoon
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Re: Remnant routes that can be rationalised
With the recent changes, they have lost their direct CBD service, so the 303 is probably more useful as a connection to UNSW, which will ultimately provide a tram connection to the CBD for those not wanting to go to Redfern. The 478 to Rockdale would probably have provided a quicker trip to the city than the 303? Running the 303 to BJI would provide some capacity relief for the 400?Fleet Lists wrote:That was a bit different in that people in Sans Souci and surrounding areas would have lost their direct service to the CBD. This latest proposal does not replace such a service.
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Re: Remnant routes that can be rationalised
708 has always been such a weird and wonderful route. the S8, which roughly serves the same area west of Westmead, runs more frequently, and once upon the time, had peak hour trips too. I really wonder why the two didn't swap numbers, as 708 is more of a shopper trip than the S8Campbelltown busboy wrote:I was looking up bus routes in trip view came across route 708 and I thought of this thread
Why don’t Transport For NSW discontinue the 708 and absorb it into route 711 so then the Constitution Hill age care centre gets more then two buses a day 1 bus to Parramatta in the morning and 1 bus from Parramatta in the afternoon
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Re: Remnant routes that can be rationalised
Why not make the 795 from region 1 and the 32 from region 15 into a Penrith to Camden via Warragamba cross regional route
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Re: Remnant routes that can be rationalised
Very nice in theory but would there be a demand for it?
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Re: Remnant routes that can be rationalised
If it was cost neutral then it wouldn't hurt. I could see a through service attracting a few odd passengers here and there.Fleet Lists wrote:Very nice in theory but would there be a demand for it?
As it is now, services on both routes tend to operate as a round trip from either Camden > Warragamba > Camden or Penrith > Warragamba > Penrith, and I'd take a guess that few passengers would be carried on the counter peak trips, so a through service (or connection) might provide a few extra patrons to a service that is already running anyway.
Perhaps the easiest thing would be to schedule the two routes to connect with each other in Warragamba, and market those trips as such.
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Re: Remnant routes that can be rationalised
Back in the nineties they tried something similar between LIverpool and Penrith but that ceased many years ago. Route 835??
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Re: Remnant routes that can be rationalised
The 835 got altered and renumbered to route 801 in the 2010 review of the region 3 networkFleet Lists wrote:Back in the nineties they tried something similar between LIverpool and Penrith but that ceased many years ago. Route 835??
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Re: Remnant routes that can be rationalised
Oh yes, the good ol' 835. Lived from 1991 to 2010.Fleet Lists wrote:Back in the nineties they tried something similar between LIverpool and Penrith but that ceased many years ago. Route 835??
There hasn't been a Liverpool-Penrith bus since then and the only closest modern example of such a route between Penrith and Region 3 is the Transit Systems 835 which started in 2014 as a peak hour only route (as it still is today, although it runs to Prairiewood, not Liverpool). So an extension of that could be on the cards.
Uhh no; the 836 became the 801. The 835 in regards to linking Penrith with Region 3 was shot down without a replacement (until 2014).Campbelltown busboy wrote:The 835 got altered and renumbered to route 801 in the 2010 review of the region 3 network
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Re: Remnant routes that can be rationalised
timetable for reference:Fleet Lists wrote:Back in the nineties they tried something similar between LIverpool and Penrith but that ceased many years ago. Route 835??
https://web.archive.org/web/20090528020 ... 0Dec08.pdf
Re: Remnant routes that can be rationalised
Two years since this thread and a lot has been done!
M41 gone
Even 510/500/X00 consolidated into the 518 series
Oxford St cleared up.
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M41 gone
Even 510/500/X00 consolidated into the 518 series
Oxford St cleared up.
Sent from my Huawei P30 Pro using Tapatalk
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Re: Remnant routes that can be rationalised
M41 has not gone - just renumbered.
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Re: Remnant routes that can be rationalised
A shame the removal of 459 didn't eventuate in M41 absorbing it's services into short running Burwood trips.Fleet Lists wrote:M41 has not gone - just renumbered.
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Re: Remnant routes that can be rationalised
Cut the 959 and run the Bald Face loop as a part of the 970 in both directions
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Re: Remnant routes that can be rationalised
Odd One for me is the 835 it could be extended two stops past it's current Terminus of the Uni in Kingswood and better serve the Community. The bus could then layover in the right direction towards Prairiewood. Benefits include Better links From Kingswood to Eskine Park and Beyond which is a real nightmare to get to and from the bus already goes these two stops just out of service or after the drivers had his 8 min layover break.
Re: Remnant routes that can be rationalised
The 959 Bald Face loop is actually quite well patronised,especially at peak hour.It deserves its place as a separate and distinct service.Campbelltown busboy wrote:Cut the 959 and run the Bald Face loop as a part of the 970 in both directions
By combining it with 970/971 would considerably lengthen trip times .12-14 minutes on average.Although the vast bulk of the 970/971 patronage is generated from Hurstville-Tom Ugly's Bridge.
In days gone by when John O'Nains operated the 959 under the Carss Park Bus Service trading name the 959 generated peak hour loadings of 25-40 pax per trip.Very impressive figures for a short route.He operated it on 30 minute peak/60 minute peak frequencies.He had very friendly ,customer focussed drivers which were key in the pax figures.
Under Southtrans/Veolia/Transdev ownership it has dropped away from those figures but it is still well patronised.15-20 pax average.