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STA Privatisation / Franchising

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion

Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby rogf24 » Wed May 02, 2018 7:12 pm

OKO wrote:https://tenplay.com.au/news/national/march-2017/bus-drivers-take-a-stand-against-pay


If there was an actual legal case against TSA, you would think the union's legal team would be on it suing TSA. Instead, there's strike action which may raise the attention of the case but that's not proof there was actual wrongdoing. You need to take it court, as I said, you would expect the unions to be on it. Unions typically have great legal teams.
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby OKO » Wed May 02, 2018 7:16 pm

My understanding, from afar, is the drivers got their back pay.

I really doubt the Union could manage that !

If it did not happen, TSA would have sued the Union who said it did. They would also have pursued all five FTA television stations who reported that it did, as well as both Sydney papers.

I guess like most kerfuffles, it was sorted quietly.
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby rogf24 » Wed May 02, 2018 7:20 pm

So the question is, was it earmarked or was it contracted? Or did TSA think a fight was ultimately not worth it even if they had a case (even if it doesn't look good fighting it)? Was the deal made as part of what would otherwise be a normal pay deal or was it part of a legal but out-of-court deal?

The thing about the media reporting it is that they can avoid being sued if they use the words like "alleged" as in "it has been alleged that TSA..." or "accused by" "TSA has been accused by...". If the media straight up accused anyone of anything, they can be sued but most media people know how to avoid it. (Although some disregard this rule and get sued.)
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby Fleet Lists » Wed May 02, 2018 8:19 pm

Using photos of State Transit buses in that article is very misleading.
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby OKO » Wed May 02, 2018 9:23 pm

A liability shield, such as you raised, may be pierced by the plaintiff, if it can be proved that the defendant knew or reasonably should have known that the statements were harmful to the plaintiff. Merely hiding behind "it is alleged" may not cut it. The damage has been done and the subsequent tort can be an expensive exercise for those who risk defamation over sensationalism.

The Daily Fail in Sydney seem to have only three stock bus photographs. Every time there is a bus related story, they roll out a STA bus in the photograph. Even when it is a private operator.
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby Stu » Wed May 02, 2018 9:31 pm

Fleet Lists wrote:Using photos of State Transit buses in that article is very misleading.


The Failing Telegraph has to go one better on everyone else by displaying 5 x STA buses.

http://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/news/bus-drivers-in-western-sydney-to-walk-off-job-50-routes-affected/news-story/6eda9856c9e407db6e25cc84aadb42cf

There was a protest by the twu and Transit Systems drivers outside a TfNSW office at Parramatta in December 2015, no publicised action in 2016 and then the 2017 strike. Many customers at Parramatta were very surprised to see STA buses (directed by TfNSW) assisting during the strike action by operating route T80. Customers were saying things like 'why is another bus company operating this service?' and 'is STA taking back the T80 from the other mob that took it?'
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby rogf24 » Wed May 02, 2018 10:39 pm

OKO wrote:A liability shield, such as you raised, may be pierced by the plaintiff, if it can be proved that the defendant knew or reasonably should have known that the statements were harmful to the plaintiff. Merely hiding behind "it is alleged" may not cut it. The damage has been done and the subsequent tort can be an expensive exercise for those who risk defamation over sensationalism.

Obviously, this would one case where this should be reasonable. Unless you're covering something that is truly defamatory, which is not the case with TSA, saying something is "alleged" is more than enough.

With nothing coming out of the courts, corruption at TSA is still not proven, everything is still "alleged" (even if TSA has backed down) and still I don't think there is enough to actually prove corruption (otherwise it would have happened).
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby tonyp » Thu May 03, 2018 8:23 am

Stu wrote:^ RTBU are supposedly going to continue to represent staff in Region 6.

But the general intention of the government (with the Sydney Metro too) is to move all transport away from under the influence of RTBU, which has only itself to blame for such a reaction with its bloody-mindedness and featherbedding over the years. While the government can't mandate which union region 6 workers belong to in the immediate future, it would be counting on there being a drift over time away from RTBU and over to TWU.
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby boronia » Thu May 03, 2018 11:12 am

In the past, there would have been considerable unrest in the workplace if two different unions were covering the same class of employee?
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby Frosty » Thu May 03, 2018 4:58 pm

tonyp wrote: the years. While the government can't mandate which union region 6 workers belong to in the immediate future, it would be counting on there being a drift over time away from RTBU and over to TWU.


Well the most ideal situation for the government it would be a non-unionised workplace maybe in future in general the unions (RTBU or TWU) will decline within Region 6 and other bus operating areas.
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Re: STA Observations - January to June 2018

Postby Frosty » Thu May 03, 2018 5:00 pm

I heard on Facebook though the source is questionable that the 370 will be operated by Eastern Region depots from May 6 ? Anyone can shed any light on this.
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby tonyp » Thu May 03, 2018 5:41 pm

Personally I'm not against unions. I think they're important to represent the interests of workers. It's when they go way beyond this and actively compromise the efficient working of an industry that I have a problem. Ultimately its members suffer as a result of that too, especially if an industry contracts or closes down because of it.

TWU strikes me as being a more constructive union, RTBU as a destructive one.
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Re: STA Observations - January to June 2018

Postby Fleet Lists » Thu May 03, 2018 5:42 pm

The timetable for route 370 has an East code of 18 as it has had since the codes were introduced.
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby Ray » Thu May 03, 2018 5:59 pm

Someone just started a rumour on Facebook that L and T's red bendies will be transferred back to the STA! haha...make of that what you will.
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby Stu » Thu May 03, 2018 6:57 pm

^ I thought that no additional artics would be transferred to R6 to operate 100% M10, M30 & M50 services which would result many new shifts that would dictate a standard bus to operate metrobus services. It would be an extreme move I f TfNSW directed STA to transfer all red metrobus (what about blue & white artics?) out of R6.

Kingsgrove will be operating more route 308 services compared to the current single morning outbound trip.

If route 370 was to become 100% R9 from this Sunday, then other routes would have to be moved around to keep balance.
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby Fleet Lists » Thu May 03, 2018 7:41 pm

Route 308 has changed from 18 East to 15 West - the first 300 series route I have seen as 15.
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby Swift » Thu May 03, 2018 7:45 pm

Will these depots subjected to this privatisation precedent retain their suffixes? I don't see why they shouldn't as they are still government owned but not run facilities.
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby J_Busworth » Thu May 03, 2018 8:57 pm

Ray wrote:Someone just started a rumour on Facebook that L and T's red bendies will be transferred back to the STA! haha...make of that what you will.


If this happens and I don't think it will, then surely STA would be the ones to keep the all the Metrobus routes. Very interested to see the new runs from Sunday, hopefully will shed more light on the meaning behind the timetable code changes.
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby boronia » Thu May 03, 2018 9:18 pm

tonyp wrote:Personally I'm not against unions. I think they're important to represent the interests of workers. It's when they go way beyond this and actively compromise the efficient working of an industry that I have a problem. Ultimately its members suffer as a result of that too, especially if an industry contracts or closes down because of it.

TWU strikes me as being a more constructive union, RTBU as a destructive one.

My past experience with the TWU was that, apart from getting your money, they weren't really interested in the bus division.
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby Swift » Thu May 03, 2018 9:21 pm

boronia wrote:
tonyp wrote:Personally I'm not against unions. I think they're important to represent the interests of workers. It's when they go way beyond this and actively compromise the efficient working of an industry that I have a problem. Ultimately its members suffer as a result of that too, especially if an industry contracts or closes down because of it.

TWU strikes me as being a more constructive union, RTBU as a destructive one.

My past experience with the TWU was that, apart from getting your money, they weren't really interested in the bus division.

So, basically you're relying on good will from your employer? All the best with that!
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby burrumbus » Thu May 03, 2018 9:27 pm

As with employers in any industry there are good and bad in the way their employees are treated.I think we can safely say that in the Sydney bus industry.
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby Ray » Thu May 03, 2018 9:30 pm

Actually the person wrote normal rigids "will be rostered on Metrobus runs at L". I took this to mean they would lose their red Bendies but it could also mean they are taking over more Metrobus work, but with the same fleet.
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby Stu » Thu May 03, 2018 10:46 pm

^ This is what I think would be happening - existing fleet with more metrobus work.
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby tonyp » Fri May 04, 2018 4:36 am

boronia wrote:My past experience with the TWU was that, apart from getting your money, they weren't really interested in the bus division.

I've seen them in the south coast news a few times in recent years taking up bus driver workplace issues, so the Illawarra branch is pretty active. It's up to members to force change if they think a union isn't doing enough for them.
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby Fleet Lists » Fri May 04, 2018 8:13 am

Swift wrote:Will these depots subjected to this privatisation precedent retain their suffixes? I don't see why they shouldn't as they are still government owned but not run facilities.

Such suffices are only meaningful to State Transit and would be irrelevant to Transit Systems.
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