[SMH] Crisis looms for Sydney train commuters

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CityRail
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[SMH] Crisis looms for Sydney train commuters

Post by CityRail »

Crisis looms for Sydney train commuters

Major corridors in Sydney's rail system will be overloaded within five years, the government's own analysis shows, with commuters throughout the city regularly confronting trains too crowded to board.

After decades of urban development and underinvestment, the Western Line between the CBD and Penrith is looming as the big crisis point for the city's train system, regardless of which party wins government next month.

Confidential analysis shows the government's own forecasts predict commuters from as far as Blacktown will be unable to get a seat into the city and trains will be overloaded by the time they get to Parramatta.

Documents obtained using freedom of information laws also show the government is assuming that by 2021 all seats will be filled on morning Illawarra Line trains from as far south as Sutherland, and there is a risk commuters from stations such as Oatley and Mortdale will be unable to board trains.

Inner west trains could also be too full to pick up passengers at Newtown and Macdonaldtown, the analysis shows.


And the document shows the number of people forced to change trains to get to their destination is expected to increase about 80 per cent by 2021, putting huge pressure on already-overcrowded city stations.

The state government's election pitch is to fund a massive expansion in the rail network using the proceeds of the privatisation of electricity assets. The Labor opposition has not stated its transport policy.

The government's expansion would extend the $8.3 billion North West Rail Link, which is under construction, through the city via a new harbour crossing and connect it to the Bankstown Line at Sydenham.

But this series of projects, to cost about $20 billion, would not address the most congested artery in the rail network.

Transport for NSW's Sydney's Rail Future 2021 Demand Assessment shows the Bankstown Line has the most spare capacity of all big rail lines between the city and Sydney's west.

The government says that by removing Bankstown Line trains from the City Circle, and extending them across the harbour on the new line, space would emerge for extra services on the Inner West line and from Campbelltown and East Hills.

But this would do little to enhance capacity on the Western Line, which emerges clearly as the biggest crisis point in Sydney's train system.

The document obtained by Fairfax Media shows patronage on the Western Line is expected to increase 4.5 per cent a year until 2021, the fastest growth on the network. This is followed by the Northern Line (3.7 per cent) between Epping and Strathfield and the Airport & East Hills Line (3.3 per cent).

The documents show the average load on Western Line services arriving at Parramatta would be more than 1400 passengers a train. It is difficult to run services on time when trains carry more than 1200 passengers because people take a long time to get on and off carriages in the crush.

Punctuality figures released last week show the Western Line, Sydney's busiest, is already struggling to cope. The line recorded the city's lowest punctuality figure last year at 92.2 per cent, just above the government's 92 per cent target and below the overall rate of 94.7 per cent.

As well as the new harbour crossing, slated to cost more than $10 billion, the government has promised more than $1 billion of works for a "western Sydney rail upgrade", which it says should allow more trains to run on the Western Line.

Transport for NSW says the upgrades will include new signalling systems between Westmead and Granville, track improvements at Homebush, new "turn-backs" at St Marys, and a new train control system. But it is understood there is still much scepticism within the department about whether the upgrades will produce the stated benefits.

Transport Minister Gladys Berejiklian said the western Sydney rail upgrades, combined with the second harbour crossing, would produce 60 per cent more capacity on the overall rail network.

"One thing is very clear – the do-nothing scenario is simply not an option," Ms Berejiklian said. "Labor left this city in a complete mess and that is why the NSW government laid out its plans in Sydney's Rail Future and continues to deliver on its promises."

Labor leader Luke Foley does not yet have a transport policy, though he has said he would announce one this month.

The analysis obtained by Fairfax Media includes the operation of the North West Rail Link, scheduled to open in 2019. Transport for NSW says passengers who use the Western Line will shift to the new north west stations.

"Thousands of customers in the morning peak will stop using the Western Line and instead use the North West Rail Link from places like Seven Hills, Blacktown and the Richmond branch – because it will be faster to get to where they're going, particularly when the second harbour crossing is complete," a spokeswoman said.

And the analysis predicts a huge increase in the number of people changing from one train to another. By 2021, it is expected that there will be 107,000 "interchange" movements, up from about 60,000 in 2011.

Source: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/crisis-looms- ... 3eao8.html
Definitely we need to do some changes to our rail network to make it sustainable, but I think the opening of NW Rail Link do open up new opportunities to ease congestion in Western Sydney.

As NW Rail Link has opened up, there will be lots of buses made redundant, so why we don't use these buses and commence new routes from Western Sydney to Sydney CBD so to leave more spaces for other passengers down the line?

By the next election, we should have WestConnex opened as well, so it will be attractive to draw a bus lane on the new freeway and put new bus services from west of Parramatta to City, whilst we keep the trains running in Western Sydney. Passengers have a choice to catch the train (which is more expensive) or the bus (which is as fast as the train and is only $4.50 in today's fare level).

This will divert passengers away from the train and leave more room downstream for Lidcombe and Strathfield passengers where they can sit down to the city.

Job done.
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Re: [SMH] Crisis looms for Sydney train commuters

Post by simonl »

CityRail wrote: I think the opening of NW Rail Link do open up new opportunities to ease congestion in Western Sydney.
No.
CityRail wrote:Job done.
Wrong again.

I liked that post for the SMH content.
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Re: [SMH] Crisis looms for Sydney train commuters

Post by Tallewang »

They need more trains in the city circle, not fewer.
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Re: [SMH] Crisis looms for Sydney train commuters

Post by CityRail »

My point is that there will be fewer demand on buses after the opening of NWRL therefore we can redeploy some buses to other areas where trains are overcrowded to give them an alternative, viable option whilst the Government can buy time to explore more options to increase capacity to the Western Line in the future.

On the other hand, if you have a read on the report, you will be surprised that load in 2021 will become overcapacity between Sutherland and Hurstville, and whilst there will be extra all stations trains serviing Hurstville, those travelling to the city will join the express service from Sutherland, making it severely overcrowded at Hurstville station in 6 years.

This overcrowing scenario only happens to the T4 Illawarra Line and no where else, and I think I would be concerned once again by the wrong priorities with this Government by overinvesting in Western Sydney and invest nothing to the St. George/Sutherland area.

I believe a triduplication of the Illawarra Line needs to happen between Hurstville and Sutherland as a minimum to relieve the overcrowding issue that will happen in the future, and at least to consider building F6 from Waterfall to St Peters to connect with WestConnex in the next term of Government. The government might be right about more houses will be built in Southwestern and Western Sydney for established families, but please don't forget that the exponential booming Asian population in the St. George and Sutherland area means there are currently more and more and more high rise apartments being built, and it is going to funnel a lot of public transport dependent residents into the area.

Tallewang: The solution to address more service in the city circle can be done by first building the second harbour crossing, then combine all stations to Hurstville service with all stations to Homebush service via the City Circle. T2 South Line needs to be bumped out of the Main Local Line and I think trains can then run every 2 minutes around the city circle between Homebush and Hurstville, the fast growing inner city areas.
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Re: [SMH] Crisis looms for Sydney train commuters

Post by 745-Castle Hill »

I don't believe anyone is saying there will be less trains on the city circle. Just instead of coming from the T3 Bankstown line there will be more services from the T2 Airport/Inner West/South lines.

I would like to think that they could have the metro harbour crossing go out towards Parramatta/Westmead under Parramatta Road and the NWRL continue from Rouse Hill out through Marsden Park to with Mt Druitt and Erskine Park or Penrith and Glenmore Park then continue to somewhere else. Not sure if that could help ease congestion too much on the Western Line but maybe.
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Re: [SMH] Crisis looms for Sydney train commuters

Post by abesty »

Ten News:
Seven Billion Stations and Counting
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Re: [SMH] Crisis looms for Sydney train commuters

Post by simonl »

Isn't the inference that the second harbour crossing will help with Western Line overcrowding an out and out lie?
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Re: [SMH] Crisis looms for Sydney train commuters

Post by abesty »

Seven News:
Seven Billion Stations and Counting
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Re: [SMH] Crisis looms for Sydney train commuters

Post by crimsontide »

simonl wrote:Isn't the inference that the second harbour crossing will help with Western Line overcrowding an out and out lie?
Yes, will help the North Shore but that's it.
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Re: [SMH] Crisis looms for Sydney train commuters

Post by abesty »

ABC News:
Seven Billion Stations and Counting
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Re: [SMH] Crisis looms for Sydney train commuters

Post by zzl »

simonl wrote:Isn't the inference that the second harbour crossing will help with Western Line overcrowding an out and out lie?
Of course not, the pollies have to tie every infrastructure announcement, even if it's miles away, to Western Sydney :lol:

On a more serious note: agree
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Re: [SMH] Crisis looms for Sydney train commuters

Post by bambul »

A new Harbour Crossing will ease pressure on T1 if it diverts passengers to the NWRL and away from the T1.

Recent Government reports suggest improved signalling on T1, though it is light on detail. My guess is that it would focus on the Central to Strathfield corridor. with extra trains terminating at Central. It also suggests longer platforms. The end result would be a WEX-light, which would go through to Central rather than Wynyard, but without the large expense of a new under the city tunnel.

Going beyond that, there was a leaked report from a few years back (the one that talked about a Northern Beaches Metro, IIRC), which discussed a new dive between the Mains and Locals around Redfern/Central. This would send 8 Northern Line TPH to the City Circle, which fills in the gap left by the removal of the 8 TPH from the Bankstown Line once that is linked up to SRT. This would also have the effect of adding the equivalent of 8TPH to T1 and do so beyond Central (unlike the above proposal). However, this last point is speculating.
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Re: [SMH] Crisis looms for Sydney train commuters

Post by simonl »

bambul wrote:A new Harbour Crossing will ease pressure on T1 if it diverts passengers to the NWRL and away from the T1.
I guess but that effect is likely to be negligible.
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Re: [SMH] Crisis looms for Sydney train commuters

Post by pgt »

CityRail wrote:As NW Rail Link has opened up, there will be lots of buses made redundant, so why we don't use these buses and commence new routes from Western Sydney to Sydney CBD so to leave more spaces for other passengers down the line?
So where do the buses go when they get to the city?
Remember there's already enough of an issue with congestion in the Sydney CBD - and before anybody says "through-routing", Adelaide - where it seems to be common-place - keeps chopping and changing their mind on this.
I believe a triduplication of the Illawarra Line needs to happen between Hurstville and Sutherland as a minimum to relieve the overcrowding issue that will happen in the future, and at least to consider building F6 from Waterfall to St Peters to connect with WestConnex in the next term of Government. The government might be right about more houses will be built in Southwestern and Western Sydney for established families, but please don't forget that the exponential booming Asian population in the St. George and Sutherland area means there are currently more and more and more high rise apartments being built, and it is going to funnel a lot of public transport dependent residents into the area.
I'd always wondered how a transit corridor along said "F6" reservation would go - whether that be a *gasp* rail line [of the heavy or light variety], or even a bus transitway/lane, given the only other public transport corridor as such in the southern suburbs is the Illawarra railway. (No, the route the 303 bus takes is not really a feasible option - the X03 maybe... though if you want to be pedantic there's the 422... but one bus does not a public transport corridor make with an hourly service [in the case of the 303] or 1-2 buses a day [in the case of the X03])

As for expanding the Illawarra line with more tracks - it's got enough now to at least Hurstville - though more efficient use is needed. (If it were possible to add an extra track to Sutherland then you may see a difference, but there's only so much an extra track will give in terms of capacity - where do the trains come from [location and dollar wise], etc etc need to be answered as well).
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Re: [SMH] Crisis looms for Sydney train commuters

Post by simonl »

pgt wrote:So where do the buses go when they get to the city?
Are people still asking this? Grosvenor St (if the tram doesn't close George St), Cahill Expressway and the Macquarie St exit then either Pitt/Castlereagh Sts or Elizabeth St, York/Erskine Sts or the Western Distributor and Kent or Clarence Sts.

Bus congestion is a purely self inflicted problem.
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Re: [SMH] Crisis looms for Sydney train commuters

Post by pgt »

simonl wrote:Are people still asking this?
Well yes, based on user CityRail's proposal to use buses from the west (and what could happen if more came from the south) - the options you propose are only useful for buses coming from the north, which some buses from the west [if they went via North Sydney first] and none from the south would use ie. it's the same problem, in reverse.
(Or do we dump even more passengers off at Rawson Place and feed them onto overcrowded light rail vehicles...)
Unless you mean to use those options to get out of the city across the harbour... then you have the through routing problem.

(I wasn't asking about buses from the north - that's been discussed to death already).

Basically what I am hinting at is buses that terminate in/near the city are not a viable solution to supplement trains from the west.
(To feed a somewhat expanded light rail system - maybe, but odds are light rail itself isn't the answer in most places anyway).
"It's my way or the (side of the) highway".
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Re: [SMH] Crisis looms for Sydney train commuters

Post by Tallewang »

simonl wrote:Isn't the inference that the second harbour crossing will help with Western Line overcrowding an out and out lie?
There are some people in the north-west, who current use the western line, who will use the NWRL and second harbour crossing, instead. Have you seen how busy the car park at Seven Hills is, and which way the cars coming in and out of the carpark are going ?
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Re: [SMH] Crisis looms for Sydney train commuters

Post by Tallewang »

simonl wrote:
bambul wrote:A new Harbour Crossing will ease pressure on T1 if it diverts passengers to the NWRL and away from the T1.
I guess but that effect is likely to be negligible.
This is the fallacy of "negligible" effects.

Build another block of units ? The effect is "negligible".

Add an extra bus service on the T-way from Rouse Hill to Parramatta and put another 50 people on the train ? The effect is "negligible".

An extra 1% economic growth ? Who can even really measure 1%, the effect is "negligible".

These "negligible" consequences all add up.
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Re: [SMH] Crisis looms for Sydney train commuters

Post by grog »

As bambul said, extra and longer trains operating from the Western line into Sydney terminal where passengers can reach their immediate destination, or change yo the SRT which is likely to have it's platforms over the Sydney Terminal side similar to the CBD Metro.

This covers the pre-SRT scenario of Western line trains terminating at Sydney Terminal (linked from the article) http://www.smh.com.au/cqstatic/13fgec/2019patronage.pdf

The signal and train length improvements will come later as part of the poles and wires package. The increase to 12 car trains on the ST trains in the operating pattern from that document would alone add 25% to capacity, and pushing it to 24toh with the extras also being 12 car ST services would boost capacity 55%.

It all also allows a future CBD relief to be built if the SRT becomes too congested for the interchange passengers.
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Re: [SMH] Crisis looms for Sydney train commuters

Post by Bedford-29 »

Or who ever gets voted in next month could try this like do in Japan and bring trains seconds behind each other or would they be to chicken.
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Re: [SMH] Crisis looms for Sydney train commuters

Post by simonl »

pgt wrote:
simonl wrote:Are people still asking this?
Well yes, based on user CityRail's proposal to use buses from the west (and what could happen if more came from the south) - the options you propose are only useful for buses coming from the north, which some buses from the west [if they went via North Sydney first] and none from the south would use ie. it's the same problem, in reverse.
(Or do we dump even more passengers off at Rawson Place and feed them onto overcrowded light rail vehicles...)
Unless you mean to use those options to get out of the city across the harbour... then you have the through routing problem.

(I wasn't asking about buses from the north - that's been discussed to death already).

Basically what I am hinting at is buses that terminate in/near the city are not a viable solution to supplement trains from the west.
(To feed a somewhat expanded light rail system - maybe, but odds are light rail itself isn't the answer in most places anyway).
Oh right. One option to reduce bus congestion for buses from the south is to have peak hour routes from Victoria Rd turn up Clarence St. I don't really understand why this hasn't been done. Also a greater number of buses terminating at Town Hall.

Elizabeth St can accommodate more buses with the bus lane between Market and King St northbound.

Absolutely agree with your comments about interchange at Rawson Place for light rail.
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Re: [SMH] Crisis looms for Sydney train commuters

Post by tonyp »

I think an underlying, unspoken theme of the politics of Australian public transport nowadays is to constrain capacity so that PT is not over-used, thus requiring more un-remunerative investment. There's a lot of circumstantial evidence for this, such as refusal to expand rail capacity, not buying enough new trams (Melbourne), extremely sub-optimal bus operation. For today's politicians the solution is easy - what can't fit on public transport defaults to cars. And of course the roads are generously provided to facilitate that.

How different things are in Europe and elsewhere, where public transport is seen as vital to enable cities to function properly. I think it's telling that Prague, an exemplar European public transport city, has the population of Adelaide but the public transport patronage of Sydney and Melbourne combined. Oddly enough, they don't seem to have trouble providing capacity. And it's all funded by the city administration, not a wealthier state or higher level government. Australia is a wealthier country than Czech Republic.

What goes? (rhetorical question)
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Re: [SMH] Crisis looms for Sydney train commuters

Post by simonl »

I'd think that higher fares would be part of the mix to reduce the subsidy.

<ducks>
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Re: [SMH] Crisis looms for Sydney train commuters

Post by CityRail »

Just to reply a few questions from our fellow members:
So where do the buses go when they get to the city?
Remember there's already enough of an issue with congestion in the Sydney CBD - and before anybody says "through-routing", Adelaide - where it seems to be common-place - keeps chopping and changing their mind on this.
We need to investigate more bus termini in the City which will be close to motorway entrances and convenient to passengers. Another option is that we can consider investing into busways and underground bus interchanges to resolve bus congestion in the city once and for all. Also there are spaces in or around the city that is either abondoned or under development. Such as William Street entrance to ED, UTS/Central Park, Edgecliff station and Bangaroo could be great places to build new major bus interchange to make our bus network sustainable.

Remember, putting buses to supplement trains will only work as a short term solution. In the long term we will have to look at alternative ways to add more train services on our network.
I think it's telling that Prague, an exemplar European public transport city, has the population of Adelaide but the public transport patronage of Sydney and Melbourne combined. Oddly enough, they don't seem to have trouble providing capacity. And it's all funded by the city administration, not a wealthier state or higher level government. Australia is a wealthier country than Czech Republic.
Perhaps one of the reason Australia has become a bit car reliant is because we have a strong lobby group of car dealers and manufacturers, plus car manufacturing workers union to push for their own job security, and the only way to do is to discourage public transport so they can produce more cars and keep their jobs/profit.

One thing worthwhile to note is that there has been a more than expected jump in terms of patronage on the South Coast Line. I have also noted some T4 Illawarra Line services have become overcrowded that I have seen passengers struggling to get on the train at Hurstville and Wolli Creek. Pretty much all of the marginal seats are located on the T2 Airport Line and T4 Illawarra Line areas, and I hope the government leading up to the election can make some big promises from the poles and wires sale to boast capacity and service in the area.

Finally, one of the other reasons why peak hour trains are so bad is because city workers are often competing with school students for a place on the train, and the reason students are on the train during morning peak is they start at 9am, which is an unappropriate timing to put our public transport system under pressure.

The Business Chamber has proposed in 2010 and I wouldn't mind to appeal again - school kids should not start school until 10am and should finish at 4pm.

This will drive all students away from using Peak Hour transport services to shadow peak, whilst leaving city workers more space on peak hour trains. Moreover, this will enable Sydney Traisn and NSW TrainLink and other bus operators to extend the peak hour until 10.30am and start from 3pm, enabling more services during the day.

Moreover, to reduce overcrowing on public transport, workers should consider to start work late (such as from 11am or 12noon) and finish late (such as 7 or 8pm), and enable Transport for NSW to introduce all day Peak hour timetable from 7am - 9pm. As a start, I believe shopping centres are being ridicious to start at 9 and close at 5. Why don't open at 11 and close at 7 instead? I am sure by spreading out our passenger travel patten, the system should have plenty of space to accmoodate everyone's needs.
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Re: [SMH] Crisis looms for Sydney train commuters

Post by tonyp »

No, the car trade isn't responsible for car dependency, its because cities have been planned badly post-war, people have come to like the independence offered by cars, politicians see more votes in roads than PT and state treasuries see PT as a waste of money. The wider benefits to cities of PT aren't acknowledged.

As for South coast - unless they're going to significantly increase train speed and comfort, we're just waiting for the motorway to roll out to Nowra. Idealism has its practical limits.
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