CBD & South East Light Rail

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boronia
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Post by boronia »

I watched a couple of trams heading outbound along Eddy Ave while waiting for my bus home this afternoon. I was horrified to see that trams had the T light to cross over the pedestrian crossing from Central Station to the bus rank at the same as the pedestrians had a green light to cross the road (and tram line). They are encouraging people to obey these lights, but program the tram to drive through them.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Post by grog »

There are 2 separate ped crossings, one for the road and one for the trams. The tram ped lights are covered over still, with traffic controllers stopping pedestrians when trams come.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Post by boronia »

That is really dangerous, expecting pedestrians to understand they are two separate sets of lights. Surely the T lights can coordinate with the other traffic lights.

Two slack female traffic controllers are not going to be able to manage a mass stampede of a hundred or so pedestrians.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Post by STMPainter2018 »

I'll refer you to what Sydney Light Rail have said to me prior:
Screen_Shot_2019-10-17_at_1.35.27_pm.jpg
And I wouldn't underestimate the power of the traffic controllers (gender has nothing to do with it); I've seen footage where they have been very firm with pedestrians in this zone.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Post by boronia »

Many pedestrians seem to have little respect for red signals, policemen, other traffic, even emergency vehicles. I just can't see a controller being any more successful.

I watched a tram come through this afternoon. At least the lights were better coordinated, but the controllers just stayed at their posts and waved at approaching pedestrians. Perhaps they need some form of movable barriers to get the message across.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Post by Campbelltown busboy »

boronia wrote:Many pedestrians seem to have little respect for red signals, policemen, other traffic, even emergency vehicles. I just can't see a controller being any more successful.

I watched a tram come through this afternoon. At least the lights were better coordinated, but the controllers just stayed at their posts and waved at approaching pedestrians. Perhaps they need some form of movable barriers to get the message across.
Something like the current day version of a early 20th century style railway level crossing gate
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Post by Cazza »

boronia wrote:Many pedestrians seem to have little respect for red signals, policemen, other traffic, even emergency vehicles. I just can't see a controller being any more successful.

I watched a tram come through this afternoon. At least the lights were better coordinated, but the controllers just stayed at their posts and waved at approaching pedestrians. Perhaps they need some form of movable barriers to get the message across.
I disagree. If a person is in a high-vis jacket (looking like they have any sort of authority, even if it's just a construction worker holding a lollipop sign), people will listen. All that needs to happen is have one person stand in the middle of the pathway on either side of the tracks and hold their arms out to stop people from crossing. If people aren't listening, sometimes an "Oi you" would be too much to manage.

The hardest part is just getting people to look up off their phones or try to be aware of their surroundings at the very least. The lack of spatial awareness that some people have is just astounding. As soon as you have someones attention, the average person will listen. If they don't, it's just a bit of natural selection I guess...
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Post by boronia »

Yeh, right. :evil:
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Post by tonyp »

For years, Pitt St retailers opposed extension of the light rail from Central to Circular Quay along Pitt St. Now they want to move to George St because there's light rail along it. I didn't know that capriciousness was a business strategy.
Sydney light rail opening set to revive big and small businesses
It is a year overdue and $1.4b over budget but the CBD light rail is less than 80 days away from completion. Now top companies are moving to a reborn George St on the promise the new transport system will create a stylish shopping boulevard to bring in even more customers.
Ben Pike, Urban Affairs Reporter, The Sunday Telegraph
October 20, 2019 12:00am

Sydney’s spine has undergone the longest and most painful surgery in its history but George St’s transformation is almost complete.

In less than 80 days the CBD light rail — a year overdue and $1.4 billion over budget — will finally begin operating.

Each 67m-long tram will transport as many as 450 passengers (the equivalent of nine buses) into the CBD every four minutes during peak periods.

Small businesses that somehow survived the process are freshening up menus, investing in new signage, applying for more outdoor dining space and doing all they can to stay on the strip.

The CBD light rail is projected to be completed in December. Picture: Gaye Gerard
Construction on the light rail is still underway outside Georgie Boy's Coffee Co on George St at Circular Quay. Picture: Gaye Gerard
Others are praying the lockout laws end.

Big retailers, meanwhile, have deserted Pitt St for George St and are banking on the light rail project making the street itself a destination.

“While construction hasn’t always been a smooth ride, the light rail will soon transform the way we get around and experience our city,” Lord Mayor Clover Moore said.

“You can already see people taking back and enjoying the streetscape, which will be great for shops, cafes, bars and restaurants along the route.

“Thank for your patience Sydney, we’re almost there.”

The new Circular Quay light rail station. Picture: Gaye Gerard
There has been $23.1b in development since the Sydney Light Rail project started in 2015.

The 605sq m Louis Vuitton store on the corner with King St, for example, is about to undergo an $11 million renovation.

Desperate to capitalise on their prime retail space in time for the December opening, the fashion retailer has applied to conduct building works around the clock, seven days a week.

One block south at Myer, the city store’s general manager Alison Muir said the light rail “will bring even more shoppers into the centre of the city, and will provide greater convenience for customers with a tram stop near one of the entrances to our Myer Sydney City store”.

“We are continuing to make customer-focused improvements to our store including our new Beauty Emporium and our soon to be opened refurbished homewares floor,” she said.

Businesses like this newsagency and coffee shop are hoping for more customers. Picture: Gaye Gerard
Nespresso and General Pants have left Pitt St for George St, where they enjoy cheaper rent and what analysts claim is better brand exposure.

Georg Jensen, Optus, Vodafone and Michael Hill are among 14 new businesses on George St in the past year.

“Brands are moving off Pitt Street Mall to George St as it will be a 1km pedestrian boulevard rather than Pitt St being one block,” CBRE head of retail leasing Leif Olson said.

Large scale developments along the route include the proposed $225m redevelopment of the Event Cinemas site and Lendlease’s $1.9b project at Circular Quay.

Lendlease will build Salesforce Tower Sydney at their Circular Quay precinct located at 180 George St. Picture: Supplied
The Salesforce Tower, located at 180 George St where the old Jacksons on George nightclub was, sees Lendlease investing in a public plaza, retail laneways, “wellness facilities”, bicycle hub and a new hospitality venue.

Fifty metres down the road cafe Quay & Co is directly outside the last light rail line stop in Circular Quay.

The venue has 32 outside seats but head chef Phillip Tsompanis is waiting on approval for 80 — the same amount it had before construction started.

“Before the light rail opening we will be freshening up the menu and offering quicker meals,” Mr Tsompanis said.

“We are expecting an increase in foot traffic and that we will be able to turn over more tables.

“The business will be much better off once works are completed.”

Quay and Co Cafe head chef Phillip Tsompanis is rejuvenating his menu ahead of the light rail completion. Picture: Gaye Gerard
What has been a win for large retailers moving in has been a disaster for small businesses, especially in Haymarket and the southern CBD.

Almost all food small retailers south of Liverpool St have shut down, while those that have survived suffered as much as 50 per cent drops in profit.

Transport for NSW said it has offered 180 businesses more than $40.7m in financial assistance.

Quay and Co Cafe in Circular Quay is waiting on approval for 80 outdoor seats. Picture: Gaye Gerard
Many businesses in between the five light rail stops on George St are unsure whether the project will actually rob them of foot traffic because potential customers will be on a tram rather than walking past their store.

Almost none believe they will see changes overnight, saying they expect the street will take a year or more to really come into its own.

They also say small businesses may be forced off George St if rents shoot up.

Combined Loan Office co-owner Daniel Ayoub said his business will survive.

“We’ve dropped our interest rate, invested in some new signage and are hoping the end of construction brings people back to the area,” he said.

Combined Loan Office co-owner Daniel Ayoub is hoping more people will come back to the area once construction is complete. Picture: Gaye Gerard
Mr Ayoub is one of than 200 businesses, residents and landlords are running a class action against Transport for NSW for damages for economic loss and psychiatric suffering.

The trial is set down for July next year with lawyers aiming to squeeze $400 million out of the state government.

Mitry Lawyers partner Rick Mitry said the opening of the light rail will not have a bearing on the case.

“Some business owners have said that they have admitted themselves to psychiatric institutions because of the stress and anguish,” he said.

“I hope this litigation gives people some relief.”

Gerel Bathayouz of Rosy Daily has felt the impact of the light rail construction, saying there have been less customers. Picture: Gaye Gerard
But many retailers said that nothing is guaranteed — especially when it comes to this bungle-plagued project.

Before light rail construction started Mario Mourtada’s three Style Plus barber stores were making $500,000 annual profit.

Last year the stores made $29,000.

“At the moment we can’t do the $150,000 renovation we want to just based on the hype of the light rail opening,” he said of his Haymarket store on 649 George St.

“We will wait and see before making a decision.”
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Post by Fleet Lists »

Less than 80 days. So do we know a start date?
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Post by tonyp »

Fleet Lists wrote:Less than 80 days. So do we know a start date?
I would be hoping for 8 December which is the 120th anniversary of the opening of the original George St line in 1899.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Post by STMPainter2018 »

tonyp wrote: I would be hoping for 8 December which is the 120th anniversary of the opening of the original George St line in 1899.
I'm going to take a wild guess and say it's more likely that it'll open on the 7th December. That way they can take in both days of that weekend. But speaking of the opening festivities, wouldn't it be nice if a vintage tram like a C class tram from Loftus was on display somewhere like in Circular Quay, similar to when C 29 was on display inside the Central Station Colonnade, during the 1997 Pyrmont Light Rail grand opening?
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Post by Swift »

tonyp wrote:For years, Pitt St retailers opposed extension of the light rail from Central to Circular Quay along Pitt St. Now they want to move to George St because there's light rail along it. I didn't know that capriciousness was a business strategy.
It's not a strategy at all by it's very definition.
It's a mindset in Sydney that's not exclusive to businesses. More like the population at large, who are hobbyist whingers when things are inconvenient but change their attitude 180° when the benefits become apparent.
NSW, the state that embraces mediocrity.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Post by Fleet Lists »

Do you really think that happens in Sydney Only? I dont think so.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Post by tonyp »

7 December would also be OK because that's the day the free public trial operation of the George St line occurred. But just to confound us both, they'll choose another day.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Post by Swift »

Fleet Lists wrote:Do you really think that happens in Sydney Only? I dont think so.
Much more than any city in the cosmos though!!!
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Post by STMPainter2018 »

tonyp wrote:But just to confound us both, they'll choose another day.
Hmmm I don't think they will but we'll see...
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

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I think they will go for a Sunday so most unlikely the 7th which is a Saturday.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Post by Linto63 »

tonyp wrote:For years, Pitt St retailers opposed extension of the light rail from Central to Circular Quay along Pitt St. Now they want to move to George St because there's light rail along it. I didn't know that capriciousness was a business strategy.
Maybe they foresaw the complete debacle that it's construction would be, the George Street closures running for over 3 years. Can't have been great for retail.
Fleet Lists wrote:I think they will go for a Sunday so most unlikely the 7th which is a Saturday.
Would be a more sensible date though. Having the opening date coinciding with family funday isn't the smartest decision, would be better to spread over two days, those who want to ride it on opening date can pay full freight and those who want to do it on the cheap can wait until day 2.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Post by marcnut1996 »

https://student.unsw.edu.au/exam-dates
UNSW Exams are until 14 December. To avoid exam disruptions, I think they might open it on the 15 December, Sunday, since the Newcastle Light Rail and Sydney Metro were also opened on a Sunday.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Post by J_Busworth »

I'd expect a free travel day starting at something like 11am, similar to that of Sydney Metro. Sunday December 15th sounds pretty good, with Uni finished, although Sydney High isn't done till the following weekend.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Post by hornetfig »

marcnut1996 wrote:https://student.unsw.edu.au/exam-dates
UNSW Exams are until 14 December. To avoid exam disruptions, I think they might open it on the 15 December, Sunday, since the Newcastle Light Rail and Sydney Metro were also opened on a Sunday.
Why would there be disruptions? They have committed to no bus changes at opening. Previously it was "until the end of the year", now it's "until the Kingsford branch is operating"
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Post by marcnut1996 »

I meant that, in the event the light rail breaks down / experiences delays in the first week, affecting students who opted to take the light rail to exams.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Post by matthewg »

marcnut1996 wrote:I meant that, in the event the light rail breaks down / experiences delays in the first week, affecting students who opted to take the light rail to exams.
And while that could be simply dismissed as 'the student's own fault for getting the new tram instead of the old bus', it will result in even more bad PR for the project.

Although given the negativity the project has taken already, this would be 'water off a ducks back' to them :-)
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Post by boronia »

If the parallel bus services are going to continue running, it shouldn't be too hard to transfer pax across somewhere.
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