The thing with Manly Fast Ferry's fare structure totally different to Sydney Ferries Opal fare structure. Manly Fast Ferry has directional and peak hour fares but lacks things such as concessions for seniors & students. It'll be interesting how they work it out since otherwise the traditional Manly Ferry service is dead.
There are still certain times, especially weekends that there is no way the Fast Ferry could cater for all intending passengers.
But as I see it the Fast Ferry Opal fares will stay a separate rate which will not integrate with the other fares and also no concessions so I feel sure there is still some life ahead for the traditional Manly Ferry.
In peak hour they would need capacity to take another 1200 or so people per hour. They would need some more ferries to handle that. I'd be very surprised if the weekend slow+fast ferry patronage exceeded the peak slow+fast ferry patronage. They just need some planning and notice to expand their capacity to support the retirement of the slow ferries. They have a contract until mid 2019. It is obviously sub optimal to have the fast ferries full in peak and the slow ferries underutilised while on weekends with good weather the fast ferries are underutilised and the slow ferries are full, putting it in simple terms.
I wonder where this idea came from? The candidate himself or did they steal it from an independent?
Even if the government subsidises all other fares up to the adult fare, I can't imagine that costing more than the subsidy necessary to keep the slow ferries going.
The only real detail to sort out is how a monopoly operator can be prevented from ramping up the price too much, like the airport stations.
I highly doubt the "Fast" Ferry will be included in the Sunday $2.50 cap! Pensioner cap, yeah, probably. If they're smart they'll exclude pre-9am work day services from the pensioner fare in the peak and argue that you can just use the E70 bus.
There's no indication at all that the Manly Fast Ferry will become part of the Opal structure at all. Day caps, weekly caps, child fares, etc, all have to be taken into account if you want to do that. It's much more likely that it will simply be used as a debit card, like the airport gate pass fee. Though I suppose that like the airport, there could be a separate weekly cap for the fast ferries, as a way of matching their current frequent user incentives.
The indication that some provision will be made for concessions is the obvious logic of doing so. It won't be politically acceptable to require pensioners to pay full fare but similarly it would be a waste of public money to continue to run the slow ferries for these people.
8 then 50% discount on fast ferries? I doubt it. Doesn't apply to station access at the airport either. I'm sure they'll work something out.
simonl wrote:The indication that some provision will be made for concessions is the obvious logic of doing so. It won't be politically acceptable to require pensioners to pay full fare but similarly it would be a waste of public money to continue to run the slow ferries for these people
Just to be clear I was talking about the immediate future in terms of Opal being accepted as a payment method (not fare structure) for the current contract setup of Manly Fast Ferries which is on a fully commercial basis without subsidy, for pensioners or anyone else. The speculation about retirement of the Freshwater class and replacing with privately owned ferries is just that - speculation - and would be much further in the future. This is not relevant to the near term use of Opal on the fast ferries.
simonl wrote:The indication that some provision will be made for concessions is the obvious logic of doing so. It won't be politically acceptable to require pensioners to pay full fare but similarly it would be a waste of public money to continue to run the slow ferries for these people.
8 then 50% discount on fast ferries? I doubt it. Doesn't apply to station access at the airport either. I'm sure they'll work something out.
I am sure they will work something out but I believe that only a small part (if any) of the current fare rules will apply to the Manly Fast fares.
Also keep in mind that the Opal card extension will NOT only apply to Manly Fast Ferry
But commuters will have to wait until early next year to use Opal cards on Manly Fast Ferry or Captain Cook Cruises services.
Captain Cook Cruises would be even less of a commuter service except possibly the Watsons Bay to the City service.
I think we're on the same page. What are you referring to with "Opal card extension"?
boronia wrote:Does the MFF currently have a facility to allow PayPass type tapping to get though barriers, or does it require physical ticket purchase?
Physical ticket purchase but they have their own smart card. Once they consolidate, I am sure a single service, or at least the death of the "government" service, will be a matter of time. It is possible that the slow ferry would be renewed but a political price paid would be deserved.
Fleet Lists wrote:
Captain Cook Cruises would be even less of a commuter service except possibly the Watsons Bay to the City service.
Captain Cook / Matilda operates the Lane Cove River services which are commuter services - Sydney's forgotten commuter ferries. These are used by school students under the SSTS subsidy (school students transport scheme) and I think the government would probably like to phase that out and replace with student Opal cards where possible. The same might apply to other private ferries such as Dangar Island, Scotland Island, Bundeena, and Palm Beach (not sure if the latter has many school students).
Why is it that some drivers still dont realise they have to push the button on the ticket machine to activate the readers if they dont automatically activate?
Driver told people to ring for refund until i told him to press the button to activate the readers
Bjwh86 wrote:Why is it that some drivers still dont realise they have to push the button on the ticket machine to activate the readers if they dont automatically activate?
Driver told people to ring for refund until i told him to press the button to activate the readers
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
A better question is why is this failing in the first place. I mean, it sure is better than 2014, that was when it failed regularly. But anyway, it uses the buses GPS - so unless that fails, how do the readers fail? And better yet - why is "Please Wait" even a thing in the first place? Who thought this was a good idea? I mean, if passengers are seated are they honestly about to get up and tap off while a bus is in motion, potentially swerving? It just reeks of 'nanny state' + 'we dont trust you'. Nope. Its laughable seeing it in action between bus stops that are separated by about 50m.
I've used smart cards on very comparable systems across the world on buses (and trams where the readers are onboard). Theres none of this having to lockout between stops - I wonder why
Jurassic_Joke wrote:
I've used smart cards on very comparable systems across the world on buses (and trams where the readers are onboard). Theres none of this having to lockout between stops - I wonder why
Don't have to wonder very much. Those systems either use a flat fare, or only operate thru one fare zone.
Jurassic_Joke wrote:
I've used smart cards on very comparable systems across the world on buses (and trams where the readers are onboard). Theres none of this having to lockout between stops - I wonder why
Don't have to wonder very much. Those systems either use a flat fare, or only operate thru one fare zone.
If there is a flat fare on the bus, there is no need to tap off at all.
In Sydney, the fare is based on absolute distance from tap on to tap off, so even half a stop could result in a different fare band. I have a choice between two close spaced stops, and one is more expensive than the other to go to the same destination.
Singapore uses distance based fares, and the readers similarly lock off between stops. But they do re-activate further out from the stop than ours, actually giving passengers the opportunity to tap off earlier and reduce dwell time.
Preserving fire service history @ The Museum of Fire.
Bjwh86 wrote:Why is it that some drivers still dont realise they have to push the button on the ticket machine to activate the readers if they dont automatically activate?
Driver told people to ring for refund until i told him to press the button to activate the readers
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
A better question is why is this failing in the first place. I mean, it sure is better than 2014, that was when it failed regularly. But anyway, it uses the buses GPS - so unless that fails, how do the readers fail? And better yet - why is "Please Wait" even a thing in the first place? Who thought this was a good idea? I mean, if passengers are seated are they honestly about to get up and tap off while a bus is in motion, potentially swerving? It just reeks of 'nanny state' + 'we dont trust you'. Nope. Its laughable seeing it in action between bus stops that are separated by about 50m.
I've used smart cards on very comparable systems across the world on buses (and trams where the readers are onboard). Theres none of this having to lockout between stops - I wonder why
There are transmission signal black spots at some locations in the city cbd, this can cause the console to stay in sleep mode even when the bus has become stationary at the bus stop and thus keeps the readers locked - the driver simply presses any key to wake up the console. The black spots used to be at Martin Pl heading outbound, on both Elizabeth St and Castlereagh St at each respective bus stop/terminus. In the last 18 months or so the black spots have shifted, no it happens on Elizabeth St heading Northbound at Museum Stn near Liverpool St, Museum Stn near Bathurst St (occasionally) and outside the Sheraton Hotel.
When the readers stop working and yet the console continues to work fine, that is more so a reader issue only and most probably due a fault due to many of the bumpy roads in Sydney or round-about infrastructure that is not designed for heavy vehicles - aka bus routes.
Last edited by Stu on Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Another solution could've been, the front reader thats mounted next to the driver could be an exception and just stay unlocked at all times, unless I'm mistaken, thats pretty much always a no-standing zone? This might fix those instance where passengers get on, fumble in wallet for opal card, but driver closes door starts driving, by the time his card is out, too late, 'Please Wait', so take a seat, free trip for you
Why not have a campaign to encourage passengers to have their cards out and ready BEFORE they get on the bus (or walk up to gates at stations). Or why not tell them they can leave their card in their wallets/purses, no need to take it out at all, if it is stowed correctly.
Preserving fire service history @ The Museum of Fire.
I think in a number of cases the GPS fails, it gets disconnected.
In other cases it's down to incorrect stop location. I know one stop near me where the Google Maps location is out by about 50m and the stop rarely works without intervention.
