Opal Discussion and Observations

[simonl]

Wow. Shows that patronage did in fact increase during the last government. Opal running?

Why's that so surprising? The number of services and the population both grew a lot in the last term of government, therefore patronage growth.

Some service were added in peak hour but only minimal services were added outside peak. Population did grow of course.

Transit was not made relatively faster or more cost competitive, that is what makes it surprising to me that there was significant growth.

EDIT: I wonder if the use of periodicals was being under estimated in pre-Opal days?

[simonl]

Hmm, Doesn't seem like the census data for 2016 is available.

[moa999]

I note the Opal Travel app (official) is now using a red L for light rail journeys.

Website, which it pulls from still shows a T. Is this new?

[Fleet Lists]

The Transport Info website now also shows L at least in the explanations. I have not looked elsewhere.

[boronia]

Got a laugh out of this:
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/bus-passenger ... ufiac.html

[Frosty]

Silly person but wow all that effort to avoid getting charged a few dollars more. Could gone on Opal.com.au or give Opal a ring to get a fare adjustment.

[sunnyyan]

^ And it did actually say in the article that the Opal readers wouldn't have worked because the bus wasn't at a bus stop.

[matthewg]

^ And it did actually say in the article that the Opal readers wouldn't have worked because the bus wasn't at a bus stop.

And by that point, the electrical system would have failed so none of the Opal machines would work anyway even if the bus driver had manually activated it on his way out.

But I have seen similar behaviour on the trains. I was at Hurstville once when the fire-alarm went off. On fire alarm activation the power is dropped to the gate lines and the gates all 'fail' open. However, there was a crowd of people forming at the gate line trying to tap off.
I wrote to Sydney Trains and suggested they should just open the gates but leave the Opal readers active - the station would evacuate quicker as there wouldn't be this crowd around the gates trying to tap off. Their only response was the gates have to open for safety reasons. Missed the bit about open the gates but leave the opal kit active to deal with this obsessive 'must tap off' behaviour that they have so carefully cultivated for everyday operations.

I couldn't tap off but I noticed after visiting a shop outside that the fire alarm had stopped, so I went back into the station, leant over a gate and tapped off

[moa999]

Well after 6000 transactions had my first need to request a fare adjustment.
Only a 15min wait on the line (and despite entering my 16digit card number and pin, that was the first question asked)

Boarded a bus with front reader out but Ok Tap On at 2nd reader.

At my stop, readers displaying Please Wait. People called out to driver who pressed a button, nothing happened, and then all readers went to Closed, so about 10 people had to get off.

Charged an extra $2.40 (for an 8+ km default fare) and then another $2.10 for next transfer.

Explained issue and what correct stop was and jovial call centre operator quickly adjusted and said I would have a $4.50 credit within the hour.

[sunnyyan]

For non-urgent fare adjustments, it's actually easier to submit a ticket online for fare adjustment. It usually gets processed next day.

[Jurassic_Joke]

So I just thought of something. And I know itll never happen, so im not going there with this post, but just some food for thought.

I've noticed, when you tap on. Single trip tickets say "Trips Left - 0". Sounds very specific for something otherwise obvious. School cards say "Tap on OK", and originally also noted an expiry date too on the screen.

I wonder if coding actually exists / existed in the Opal System to hold travel products such as Travel 10's and Periodicals (the on-text above sure does point in this direction) but then the idea of introducing them on the system was axed.

[Fleet Lists]

I wonder if coding actually exists / existed in the Opal System to hold travel products such as Travel 10's and Periodicals (the on-text above sure does point in this direction) but then the idea of introducing them on the system was axed.

Thank heavens they were axed - they would have unnecessarily complicated the system even more than it already is.

[matthewg]

I wonder if coding actually exists / existed in the Opal System to hold travel products such as Travel 10's and Periodicals (the on-text above sure does point in this direction) but then the idea of introducing them on the system was axed.

TfNSW didn't buy a license for the 'travel pass' option. The base code does it, as London has periodicals still and Opal is based on Oyster. Occasionally London makes noises about winding back the passes, but then the masses get restless and start writing letters to their MPs. London's planners probably drool when they see Sydney managed to abolish passes, something they have not managed to do them selves.

[simonl]

So I just thought of something. And I know itll never happen, so im not going there with this post, but just some food for thought.

I've noticed, when you tap on. Single trip tickets say "Trips Left - 0". Sounds very specific for something otherwise obvious. School cards say "Tap on OK", and originally also noted an expiry date too on the screen.

I wonder if coding actually exists / existed in the Opal System to hold travel products such as Travel 10's and Periodicals (the on-text above sure does point in this direction) but then the idea of introducing them on the system was axed.

I would refer you to Melbourne which kept these passes on their Myki system. Results in complaints about lost passes taking too long to replace and contributes to a far weaker system than elsewhere in Australia.

[TheOpalUser]

So I just thought of something. And I know itll never happen, so im not going there with this post, but just some food for thought.

I've noticed, when you tap on. Single trip tickets say "Trips Left - 0". Sounds very specific for something otherwise obvious. School cards say "Tap on OK", and originally also noted an expiry date too on the screen.

I wonder if coding actually exists / existed in the Opal System to hold travel products such as Travel 10's and Periodicals (the on-text above sure does point in this direction) but then the idea of introducing them on the system was axed.

They exist to a point - the employee passes work on STA buses, Sydney Ferries, NSW TrainLink and Sydney Trains. They don't work on private buses or the light rail. They can't be topped up, and have an expiry date.

Other free travel, eg vision impaired and veterans have a card that works on all modes, except the airport stations, and have an expiry date.

School cards are limited by mode and stations too, and are free and only work during specific periods, they also have an expiry date.

So in a way travel passes do exist; limited by mode or stations, and having a fixed expiry date.

[Glen]

Well after 6000 transactions had my first need to request a fare adjustment.

I've noticed twice recently when tapping off (seemingly) normally on a bus, and I always check, my journey was registered as "to unknown", I was charged the default fare and no transfer discount was given.

I've submitted it to Opal, not that it is worth hassling about for 2 x $2, but for the principle that they correct this in the system when it is not the customer's fault.

[swtt]

Well after 6000 transactions had my first need to request a fare adjustment.

I've noticed twice recently when tapping off (seemingly) normally on a bus, and I always check, my journey was registered as "to unknown", I was charged the default fare and no transfer discount was given.

I've submitted it to Opal, not that it is worth hassling about for 2 x $2, but for the principle that they correct this in the system when it is not the customer's fault.

I also tapped on normally recently, but when tapping off it shows it didn't register properly (i.e. tapping off at my destination was actually a tap on!)

[sunnyyan]

^ Then you would have received two default fares. One for tap on and one for tap off. This has only happened to me when because the driver selected the wrong trip after a changeover at K depot. This was because the tap on and tap off are not on the same route.

[Fleet Lists]

^ This was because the tap on and tap off are not on the same route.

How would this then be handled on Transdev trips which start at Cronulla as route 971 and then convert to route 970 at Miranda to Hurstville on Sundays, on which through fares are supposed to be payable. They would have different route numbers at tap on and tap off.

[Swift]

^ that's a concern. I'm betting OPAL haven't covered that unusual situation.

[matthewg]

How would this then be handled on Transdev trips which start at Cronulla as route 971 and then convert to route 970 at Miranda to Hurstville on Sundays, on which through fares are supposed to be payable. They would have different route numbers at tap on and tap off.

But the same bus, same 'run' so it probably can handle this. The other problem was a changeover, where the system was shutdown when the outgoing driver logged off
and the incoming driver has pressed the wrong button and didn't continue the run but started a new one.

[Fleet Lists]

Yes it is more likely the shut down which caused it and NOT the different route number as indicated by sunnyyan.

[Stu]

Below is an example of when a driver may accidentally select the incorrect (next) trip if not paying attention. The opal system does not count how many trips have been operated and automatically highlight the next trip in order for selection by the driver, instead the opal system will match whichever scheduled trip is closest to the current clock time on the console regardless of which trips have been operated or have not been operated.

389 Out.
Depart - Maritime Museum 15:03.
(Time elapsed so far 43 minutes)
Relief - Waverley Depot 15:46.
(Time remaining 21 minutes + 8 minutes lay over)
Arrive - Nth Bondi 16:07.

Next trip.
389 In.
Depart - Nth Bondi 16:15.
Arrive - Maritime Museum 17:24.


There are a plenty of other routes that behave in the same manner as the above example. Below are a couple more very brief examples.
380 Out to Nth Bondi (relief outside W-depot).
490 Out to Hurstville (relief on Kingsgrove Rd it inside K-depot).
492 Out to Rockdale (relief on Kingsgrove Rd it inside K-depot).
The time remaining to Hurstville or Rockdale is only between 15-20 minutes compared to the remaining time heading towards Drummoyne of between 45-60 minutes.

[moa999]

Article in the Tele that Opal to be introduced on the Manly Fast Ferry. (Google Opal fast ferry)

That ferry will be in the trial of credit cards, and the Opal cards can be used for onboard purchases.

And that fares for the fast ferry won't change - but no comment on transfer benefits or 8+, Sunday, concession discounts.

[Fleet Lists]

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/newslo ... 656bcf768f

Premier announces that Opal card system set to work on Manly Fast Ferry service
Robbie Patterson, Manly Daily
March 24, 2017 6:46pm

Opal changes see price hike
Opal card trial sets sail on Manly ferry

THE Opal system will be expanded to include fast ferry services, with public transport users also able to pay by directly tapping on with their credit cards.

Premier Gladys Berejiklian announced today that the Manly Fast Ferry would be the first system to trial credit card tap-on technology later this year.
Premier Gladys Berejiklian was at Manly Wharf to make the announcement.

But the State Government has ruled out a price hike, with the premier saying fares for both Sydney Ferries and private operators would stay the same.

Passengers over 18 will eventually be able to use Opal cards to buy alcohol on board, with an eye towards allowing people to use the cards in other areas, such as supermarkets.

But commuters will have to wait until early next year to use Opal cards on Manly Fast Ferry or Captain Cook Cruises services.
Until this announcement, the only water-based form of transport that used Opal was Sydney Ferries.

Ms Berejiklian said the upgrade was influenced by similar systems, like London’s Oyster and Hong Kong’s Octopus.

“We weren’t able to do this when the system first came in because obviously the private ferries and the public ferries have a different pricing structure,” she said.

“Now we have the technology and we are going to start negotiations to make sure it is all part of the same system.”

Any added cost will be absorbed by the Government.

Manly Fast Ferry owner Richard Ford said it would make it more convenient to catch his services.

“I am pretty confident the technology is good in the background and the idea is to get it seamless for the passenger,” he said.

Mr Ford said the use of credit cards would allow them to eventually eliminate single ticket sales, but assured that it would not affect staff numbers.

“We operate both tourist and ferry services from our ticket office, so we still need our staff there to sell the tourist service, plus people still need information about the area,” he said.

“We are in the business of customer service, so we will have staff at the ticketing office.”


Ms Berejiklian was joined by Manly Liberal candidate James Griffin, who called the announcement a win for commuters.

“Integrating the ticketing is a great thing for the fast ferry service,” he said.

It has revolutionised the travel from Manly for a lot of commuters and having caught it for many years this is a great advancement and a really positive step.”