Sydney Metro - Tallawong to Bankstown

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Re: Sydney Metro - Tallawong to Bankstown

Post by Swift »

These pathetic low lives need to be caught and have their necks wrung without police involvement. That way they will receive the justice coming to them.
I wonder if it occurred in the commuter car park itself?
I think Metro need to install cameras galore and perhaps some private security. Who'd have thought this absurdity would raise its ugly head.
Thanks for that Tony. A juicy read on all the myriad of niggles commuters are encountering through use of this new line. It's plainly very bureaucratic like all Sydney infrastructure.
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Re: Sydney Metro - Tallawong to Bankstown

Post by tonyp »

At the Rouse Hill bus layover, next to the staff amenities building, there's a short stub roadway turning off to the NE, labelled as though it's the start of a future busway. Anybody know what that's about?
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Re: Sydney Metro - Tallawong to Bankstown

Post by marcnut1996 »

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Rouse ... d150.91552
Is the stub roadway the one in the centre of the map? Seems odd if it is to be a busway extension. Maybe it is just leading to a future NE expansion of the bus park.
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Re: Sydney Metro - Tallawong to Bankstown

Post by tonyp »

marcnut1996 wrote:https://www.google.com/maps/place/Rouse ... d150.91552
Is the stub roadway the one in the centre of the map? Seems odd if it is to be a busway extension. Maybe it is just leading to a future NE expansion of the bus park.
That's right, next to the amenities building. It actually has something painted on the road surface suggesting that it's a T Way, but unfortunately I didn't take much note of it at the time.

Talking previously about the amount of foot traffic and the unpleasantness of walking along Windsor Rd (noise, headlights in your face, poor footpath lighting, long cycles at traffic lights), a lot of young people take a shortcut through the bus park to Commercial Rd (including scaling a fence!), presumably getting from the station to and from the Fiddler which is a massive venue with thousands of people going through it. Then there's another unpleasant walk on to the other Rouse Hill shopping centre with Aldi, McDonalds etc where the pedestrian access path actually leads into the McDonalds drive-through so that cars and pedestrians have to wait for each other to get out of the way! Shocking pedestrian planning in the area, it's like they assumed nobody would walk but hundreds do. These planners together with the bus planners need a shake-up.
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Re: Sydney Metro - Tallawong to Bankstown

Post by tonyp »

From that good-humoured mob at the metro users Facebook group today, a response from TfNSW about the (lack of) parking issue - and living proof that the management and employees of TfNSW reside on the Planet Zog. The recipient accesses Tallawong from up the Bells Line of Road (I told you the catchment was large) and was unimpressed by the suggested alternative means of access, none of which are viable for him at that distance. I've added some explanatory comments:
Thank you for contacting Transport for NSW about parking availability at Tallawong Station. I apologise for the inconvenience you are experiencing.
It is widely recognised that north-west Sydney remains one of the most highly car dependent regions in Australia.[you don't say] As a major piece of transport infrastructure, Sydney Metro North West will change the way people get around across Sydney’s entire North West region as well as locally.
Interchange planning at each of the new stations recognises that a balance must be made between catering for car access demand and the encouragement of alternative, more sustainable public transport modes [like just staying at home] and Tallawong station has been designed as a multi-modal station. [two modes: 1. access it successfully; 2. fail to access it successfully]
In addition, we also encourage people to travel to Sydney Metro stations by either, walking, cycling or catching a scheduled bus service or an On Demand bus service, where available.
We acknowledge, as is the case across Sydney, that commuter car parks are highly popular with commuters and do fill up early in the morning. It is recommended that people wishing to use a space at the new car parks plan their trips so they arrive early. [TfNSW code for "camp overnight"]
While there are no current plans to build an additional car park and/or add further spaces at the Sydney Metro, we will continue to monitor parking conditions at car parks and surrounding streets for one year after opening. [TfNSW code for "we will book you if you park outside the car park"]
For further information please refer to [and then bin as useless] the Sydney Metro Northwest – Parking Management Strategy Overview Report https://www.sydneymetro.info/…/Parking_ ... t_strategy_… and/or the Sydney Metro Northwest – Community feedback https://www.sydneymetro.info/…/Sydney_M ... west-Commu….
Again, I thank you for taking the time to provide us with your feedback. [and please don't bother us again]

To provide more feedback, please use the Transport Info feedback forms: http://www.transportnsw.info/feedback.
Yours sincerely,
Customer Feedback
I note that the Landcom render for Tallawong development shows ground-level carparks remaining. They're optimistic.

Image

A Rouse Hill hospital is also anticipated and there's a huge high-density unit estate being built on Windsor Rd and opposite it a new 4 star Mercure Hotel at the Fiddler, for those who aren't aware. It's really moving along. Prepare for more "line of desire" dirt pathway furrows across lawns and garden beds in the area as the planners do their best to locate access footpaths from the stations in the worst possible places. I've never seen so many people vaulting fences and gates on Saturday night since the steeplechase at the 2004 Olympics.

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Re: Sydney Metro - Tallawong to Bankstown

Post by lunchbox »

Who would have thought that the biggest social problem arising out of the opening of the North West Metro would be car parking. How boring! But we should have expected it. For years, one of the most recurring items in Sydney's local newspapers has been the "lack of parking". There's enough material here for multiple PhD theses. Its high time that the cost of providing for the parking of a vehicle was built into its purchase price. The pending introduction of autonomous vehicles may well make things much worse.
Last edited by lunchbox on Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sydney Metro - Tallawong to Bankstown

Post by tonyp »

lunchbox wrote:Who would have thought that the biggest social problem arising out of the opening of the North West Metro would be car parking. How boring! But we should have expected it. For years, one of the most recurring items in Sydney's local newspapers has been the "lack of parking". There's enough material here for multiple PHD theses. Its high time that the cost of providing for the parking of a vehicle was built into its purchase price. The pending introduction of autonomous vehicles may well make things much worse.
But the reality out in that part of the world is that this is almost the only way that most people can get to the railway stations (that applies to the suburban system stations out there too), given the poor bus planning, so honestly what else do you expect them to do?

Let's take the bloke from Bells Line of Road whom the train has attracted out of his car. He obviously can't cycle or walk down to the metro, nor probably can he get a string of buses from home (if there are any). My suggestion would be that he could drive to the 608 Windsor to Rouse Hill bus and park at any point along its route where there is parking space - but now look at this POS of a timetable:

https://transportnsw.info/documents/tim ... 190728.pdf

This is a corridor that is a natural line of travel extending from the metro, with housing development emerging in Box Hill and other places along the road, yet this is the best that TfNSW can come up with. Yes there are principles and ideals but then there are also realities. The alternative is that those people will just continue their entire journey by car and congest and park out your inner city area. Take yer pick.

A very polished piece of propaganda but actually the reality of how many people are seeing it, judging by public feedback:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtbj9ccmKuc
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Re: Sydney Metro - Tallawong to Bankstown

Post by Swift »

You'd think buses would have been freed up to do this work now that their services to the city are not as required. Too many bus services invade the CBD in the peaks, so this is a two fold opportunity to cull them from the CBD and allocate then where they are actually craved.
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Re: Sydney Metro - Tallawong to Bankstown

Post by tonyp »

Swift wrote:You'd think buses would have been freed up to do this work now that their services to the city are not as required. Too many bus services invade the CBD in the peaks, so this is a two fold opportunity to cull them from the CBD and allocate then where they are actually craved.
This is supposed to be a theoretical outcome of converting bus corridors to train or tram. The same should happen in the south-east - freeing of buses to boost the feeder networks with extra buses. Dunno what happened in the NW. I hope it won't be the same story in the SE.
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Re: Sydney Metro - Tallawong to Bankstown

Post by Bovways »

tonyp wrote:
Swift wrote:You'd think buses would have been freed up to do this work now that their services to the city are not as required. Too many bus services invade the CBD in the peaks, so this is a two fold opportunity to cull them from the CBD and allocate then where they are actually craved.
This is supposed to be a theoretical outcome of converting bus corridors to train or tram. The same should happen in the south-east - freeing of buses to boost the feeder networks with extra buses. Dunno what happened in the NW. I hope it won't be the same story in the SE.
Until the Metro is opened all the way through to the City, the majority of the City buses continue. Others, such as the 607X, have simply had the outer ends curtailed, operating City to Bella Vista now rather than Rouse Hill.
IIRC correctly the biggest change was axing the 627 to Chatswood. The big bus savings will come in five years when the Metro is complete.

C :)

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Re: Sydney Metro - Tallawong to Bankstown

Post by Swift »

Let's hope. In the meantime, the NW stations are being criminally deprived of much needed bus feeder services, something that is the the primary purpose of a bus.
We presently have effective duplication with metro, alongside repurposed buses acting as defacto trains, which they are not designed for, something the metro is supposed to eliminate, if not, at least attack effectively.
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Re: Sydney Metro - Tallawong to Bankstown

Post by Jurassic_Joke »

Bovways wrote: IIRC correctly the biggest change was axing the 627 to Chatswood.
This is one change I agree with.

It made no sense to keep the 627, given the route ran +- almost parallel with the Metro.

I still remember myself using that route myself just a couple of years ago to go from Chatswood to Castle Hill in the arvo peak, and getting stuck to a standstill in traffic. I don’t miss that. The metro is centuries ahead of that, look how far we’ve come!

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Re: Sydney Metro - Tallawong to Bankstown

Post by Transtopic »

I think the problem is that the NW commuters (excluding those who have always had easy access to the Richmond or the Northern Lines) have become accustomed to having a direct express bus service to the CBD and to a lesser extent North Shore destinations without having to change mode, whereas those travelling on the existing established Sydney Trains' trunk routes, particularly from the outer suburbs, accept that catching a frequent local bus service to interchange to a train is the norm. It may take some time for NW commuters to adjust to this reality. Driving to the station and parking all day is another issue which I'll come to later.

It's not sustainable to continue to have the previous direct bus services from the major stations running in parallel with the train service, which was meant to replace them. There may be some justification in some circumstances as an interim measure until the metro line is extended into the CBD, but after that they should be cancelled. As others have already pointed out, enough thought hasn't been given to creating a web of frequent local bus services feeding into the metro stations. Yes, it will cost more money, but there are no free lunches in providing an acceptable level of public transport.

Which brings me to the matter of the provision of parking facilities for commuters interchanging to the train, be it metro or the existing network. It is impossible to provide enough long term parking facilities to meet the demand for those who drive to the station to interchange to the train. While it is desirable to encourage greater public transport use, the down side is that residential streets within close proximity of major stations are clogged up with all day commuter parkers, restricting access to local residents for visitors, deliveries and tradies.

Restricted parking zones are one way of addressing this, but all that effectively does is force the commuter parkers to go further out. How long is a piece of string? In relating this to my own personal circumstances, I live within 600m of Epping Station, which is a comfortable walking distance, but we are just outside the restricted parking zones closer in, which means that our street is clogged up with commuter parking for most of the day. It's a pain in the neck. If more commuters could be encouraged to catch a bus to the station, provided they're available, then we'd all be better off.

Parramatta Council, which administers Epping, has been strongly opposed to providing a commuter parking station for fear of creating more congestion in the Town Centre which is already heavily congested because of the confluence of several major arterial roads. Ryde Council has similarly opposed a commuter carpark in Eastwood proposed by the State Government. Both of these centres already have extensive local and regional bus routes feeding into the rail system.

On a more general note, the continued use of buses on the major medium to long distance public transport routes directly into the CBD, not currently serviced by rail, is unsustainable. That includes the likes of the Northern Beaches and the Victoria Road corridors amongst others.

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Re: Sydney Metro - Tallawong to Bankstown

Post by Swift »

Buses are way over relied upon to do heavy lifting in Sydney. That is not characteristic of a well developed metropolis and does no favours to the city's standing as world class, which it so desperately craves both on a political level and within the populace who want to feel this metropolis genuinely stacks up and not be second or third rate in functionality.
Buses as a base defacto metro as a cheap "easy" copout is no longer excusable.
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Re: Sydney Metro - Tallawong to Bankstown

Post by tonyp »

Swift wrote:Buses are way over relied upon to do heavy lifting in Sydney. That is not characteristic of a well developed metropolis and does no favours to the city's standing as world class, which it so desperately craves both on a political level and within the populace who want to feel this metropolis genuinely stacks up and not be second or third rate in functionality.
Buses as a base defacto metro as a cheap "easy" copout is no longer excusable.
Well that was the 1950s solution. The VIctoria Rd and Mosman-Warringah corridors, for example, did have tram services with probably three times the capacity of the bus services that replaced them, but the legacy that those 1950s politicians and transport planners left us was a huge downscaling of capacity. Buses were also never a serious substitute for train services. The complainers in the NW talk about the direct city buses as though they were an alternative to the metro, but they carried almost nobody compared to the metro. Their capacity might have been up to 2,000 passengers per hour per direction (in fact I read somewhere they only carried a few thousand per week), while the metro has a present peak capacity of about 20,000 per hour. The vast majority of the metro's users would be people who formerly drove their cars and wouldn't have caught a bus anyway.

Where buses come into it in the average sprawled out Australian city is helping to get people to the railway stations that have a very small walk-up (1 km) catchment relative to the spread of the urban areas around them. This issue of needing supporting modes to service the railway stations is completely different to that of the legacy lines in the old areas of the city where the stations are usually so close together that they regularly intrude on each others' walk-up catchments. The bus sector in NSW now has to adapt itself to doing far more of the job that the private operators used to specialise in - feeding railway stations and cross-regional services - and far less of the job that the government (tram-replacement) buses have done - running major core routes into the Sydney CBD. Hopefully in the future, more railway and tramway lines will be built to replace the latter as much as possible.
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Re: Sydney Metro - Tallawong to Bankstown

Post by tonyp »

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/newsl ... 70582d9450
Sydney Metro northwest: $1.3b expansion to double network capacity
A major expansion project is underway on the Sydney Metro northwest, just months after it opened to the public.
Jake McCallum, Urban Affairs Reporter, Hills Shire Times

September 10, 2019 6:00am

Construction to more than double the capacity of the Sydney Metro network is underway at Tallawong Station — which will allow an extra 37 metro trains to operate on the line.

Sydney Metro is expanding the Tallawong shunting yard at Rouse Hill, which currently houses a total of 22 trains, as part of a multimillion-dollar four-year project.

Construction has started again on the Sydney Metro northwest.
The $1.37 billion contract was awarded in November last year, with construction commencing in August.

A Sydney Metro spokeswoman said the project will cater for the 37 additional trains required when the Sydney Metro city and southwest networks open in 2024.

“An additional stabling facility will also be built at Marrickville, providing overnight stabling facilities for Sydney Metro trains and allowing for light maintenance activities to minimise the requirement to send trains to the Sydney Metro Trains Facility at Rouse Hill,” the spokeswoman said.

Sydney Metro CEO Jon Lamonte pictured at the marshalling yard at Rouse Hill. Picture: Toby Zerna
In 2013 it was announced the Sydney Metro Trains Facility at Rouse Hill would be built in two stages.

The major expansion project comes as a blueprint of what the Metro network could look like in 2056 was revealed, providing a look at several new lines earmarked to connect Sydney suburbs.
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Re: Sydney Metro - Tallawong to Bankstown

Post by tonyp »

A more general railway-related sidenote, but I love some of the humour coming from the Hills metro users facebook group:

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Re: Sydney Metro - Tallawong to Bankstown

Post by boronia »

A new Facebook page "Save the T3 Bankstown Line" has appeared recently. It appears to be another RTBU beat up, with lots of misleading "facts".

EG, "passengers wishing to go to Town Hall will have to change at Sydenham or Central". Pointing out that the Pitt St station is only 100 metres from Town Hall results in deletion and blocking "it is not Town Hall, completely different!".

Well worth a read for a good laugh, make some comments but don't expect them to stay up too long.
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Re: Sydney Metro - Tallawong to Bankstown

Post by BanksfielderIdiot823 »

How many times does it have to be forgotten that ABLE-BODIED people are not the only patrons on the trains, but so are the elderly and less mobile?!? Particularly on the Bankstown line. And before anybody wants to throw the call at me to get my facts right, I was born, lived and grew up on the Banko, both IN Bankstown and in the Fairfield area which covers Villawood down to Cabramatta. I know very well what I'm talking about.

The distance between Town Hall and future Pitt Street Stations means nothing to an able-bodied man or woman. But to a less mobile one, it's horrible. Be very glad that a whole lot of you still have functioning legs. It's actually worse if their destination is Museum, St James or Circular Quay.

And anyone that takes it as a whinge neither lives or ever lived on the Bankstown Line particularly west of Bankstown, nor commutes on it on a daily basis. By the way, nobody on this line was consulted about this prior to its approval, except for apartment-tropolis Canterbury. But then again, nope. None of it will matter to the mass able-bodied commuters from other areas along with the latte-sipping millennials who'll just knock the elderly commuters out of their way and drastically complain when their train is just 5 minutes late.

The only best thing that can happen to this line now is that proposed City via Lidcombe diversion (i.e. the old Inner West Line, sort of.) during the December shutdown becomes the permanent result following the Metro opening.
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Re: Sydney Metro - Tallawong to Bankstown

Post by tonyp »

I'm right up there with you on the need for consideration of the mobility-impaired, but it could be equally argued that somebody who presently wants to go to Pitt St is inconvenienced by the fact that the station is at Town Hall. Apart from which, how's the DDA compliance going with the city circle stations nowadays. Do they have platform/concourse/street lifts yet - I'm not up to date? In addition, how's the roll on/roll off unassisted wheelchair access going on suburban system trains and platforms nowadays? I suspect the arguments for retaining double deckers on the Bankstown line are at their weakest when it comes to easy access.

I wouldn't be surprised if some future development provides a pedestrian tunnel between Town Hall and Pitt St stations.
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Re: Sydney Metro - Tallawong to Bankstown

Post by BanksfielderIdiot823 »

tonyp wrote:I'm right up there with you on the need for consideration of the mobility-impaired, but it could be equally argued that somebody who presently wants to go to Pitt St is inconvenienced by the fact that the station is at Town Hall. Apart from which, how's the DDA compliance going with the city circle stations nowadays. Do they have platform/concourse/street lifts yet - I'm not up to date? In addition, how's the roll on/roll off unassisted wheelchair access going on suburban system trains and platforms nowadays? I suspect the arguments for retaining double deckers on the Bankstown line are at their weakest when it comes to easy access.

I wouldn't be surprised if some future development provides a pedestrian tunnel between Town Hall and Pitt St stations.
So true. Especially St James and Museum, both with 3 exits each, only 1 of their 3 having a lift.
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Re: Sydney Metro - Tallawong to Bankstown

Post by swtt »

boronia wrote:A new Facebook page "Save the T3 Bankstown Line" has appeared recently. It appears to be another RTBU beat up, with lots of misleading "facts".

EG, "passengers wishing to go to Town Hall will have to change at Sydenham or Central". Pointing out that the Pitt St station is only 100 metres from Town Hall results in deletion and blocking "it is not Town Hall, completely different!".

Well worth a read for a good laugh, make some comments but don't expect them to stay up too long.

Same clowns that set up Save the Inner West Line. Mostly residents from Berala/Regents Park who have had to endure poor frequency services (until last year when Bankstown - Lidcombe services were boosted to every 15 min almost all day, every weekday).

Sorry, but your line captures such low density housing it's practically not possible.

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Re: Sydney Metro - Tallawong to Bankstown

Post by gascoyne »

There's to be trackwork this weekend, with bustitution from Chatswood to Tallawong. Meanwhile, a sign on platform 4 at Chatswood suggests the 4d/w night busitution might end soon. Does anyone on this discussion board know what's going on?

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Re: Sydney Metro - Tallawong to Bankstown

Post by neilrex »

" The vast majority of the metro's users would be people who formerly drove their cars and wouldn't have caught a bus anyway."

Yeah? Really ? where are all these suddenly empty car spaces in the CBD ?

The idea that metros will stop people who can afford parking or are given parking in the CBD is laughable.

Also, the majority of traffic headed in the general direction of the CBD is not actually going to the CBD.

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Re: Sydney Metro - Tallawong to Bankstown

Post by boronia »

There are dozens of car parks around the CBD, have you been checking out occupancies?

Anecdotally, most of the traffic reduction has been in the Macquarie Park area.
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