Sydney Metro - Tallawong to Bankstown

[strata]

Is Sydney's Central Metro station to be the ONLY one in the world with a SINGLE entry/exit point?

My understanding is that the existing pedestrian tunnels will emerge in the new 'metro' concourse.

[lunchbox]

^^^^^^^ I'd like you to point to evidence of that!

[Fleet Lists]

https://www.google.com/url?q=http://www ... 7BsiflPdbw

"An underground station at Central linking to existing intercity and suburban rail services".

[andy_centralcoast]

Perhaps a silly question, but when the government talks about the metro not running to a timetable, instead having a driverless train every 4 minutes. Isn't that a timetable? Or will the starting time differ each day so it's not always say 7:04, 7:08, 7:12 etc

[Fleet Lists]

That 4 minute would be on the average and details could vary from day to day. It is not known how this would effect trip finders.
Much the same applies tho the current light rail where there is no published timetable but there is a timetable used for trip finding purposes.

[moa999]

The previously proposed stub tunnels have also been abandoned.

I'm guessing those stubs were for a branch out of Victoria Cross.

The change still leaves open the possibility for a branch from Epping to Parramatta if they reuse the to be abandoned tunnels for access for the Main Northern Line. They could also branch to the Upper North Shore Line to Gordon or Lindfield if they quad that section and have DDs run express trains on that section, if they really wanted to, not the best solution though.

So no Northern Beaches railway from the new Harbour tunnel then... Ever.

Not much room left on the above ground section at Chatswood

So what other routes could be planned.
I wonder whether a Central-Oxford st-Woolloomooloo/Garden Island - Taronga - Warringah Mall - Narrabeen

Obviously a lot of money in the Garden Island land if they ever decide to relocate

[strata]

^^^^^^^ I'd like you to point to evidence of that!

EIS mentions that the metro platforms will be accessible from both the northern concourse and existing underground pedestrian connections. Would be a little redundant if the only entry point was via the north.

[simonl]

So no Northern Beaches railway from the new Harbour tunnel then... Ever.

Wouldn't that be somewhat daft?

[lunchbox]

Strata^^^^^^ - The EIS Submissions Report shows only one entry to the Central Metro platforms - from the northern concourse.
On the subject of stub tunnels, Metro's philosophy seems to be "better to leave it till later to decide where we might want to build branch lines, then bash a hole in the tunnel wall, rather than build stubs now, which might constrain future planning options".

[moa999]

So no Northern Beaches railway from the new Harbour tunnel then... Ever.

Wouldn't that be somewhat daft?

I tend to agree, but with the removal of the Victoria Cross stub tunnels the line doesn't surface until Chatswood, which would limit a Northern Beaches railway to something following say Warringah Rd

--

And without a stub you get some substantial shut downs.

But i guess the history of Sydney railways building stubs and platforms never to be used isn't great either, both recently (St.Leonards) and older St.James, Central, Redfern

[simonl]

with the removal of the Victoria Cross stub tunnels the line doesn't surface until Chatswood, which would limit a Northern Beaches railway to something following say Warringah Rd

Yes, but why would the stub tunnels be removed?

[mandonov]

Yes, but why would the stub tunnels be removed?

Did you read the report?

They say that the added flexibility of not having to be tied to these physical stubs allows them to review more options for any potential branches. They've considered the disruption to services of having to take a section of tunnel offline and are willing to accept that.

[Pintpot]

with the removal of the Victoria Cross stub tunnels the line doesn't surface until Chatswood, which would limit a Northern Beaches railway to something following say Warringah Rd

Yes, but why would the stub tunnels be removed?

Stub tunnels are not compatible with TBM methods of tunnel excavation. They would have to be dug using roadheaders

This complicates (quite considerably) the preferred configuration of tunnel excavation, primarily because to get roadheaders in to such a situation you need an excavation/pit head site to run them from and get the spoil out from. There is none available anywhere near the proposed stub tunnel location

The nearest excavation/pithead site is Barangaroo, but you couldn't run roadheaders under the harbour as the geology is not suitable. So you'd have to come from the north side somewhere. Perhaps Crow's Nest station location would have been an option, but then you're chopping up the tunnel drives and making them cost inefficient

Gut feel is it would be a 9 figure sum (over $100m) to reconfigure the tunnel drives to suit the excavation of stub tunnels. This is a lot of money to spend on something that may never get used

[Liamena]

News story from ABC News website:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-11-29/r ... s'/8074894

The proposed metro timetable is a state secret, apparently.

[simonl]

Let's hope the court orders the release of the current thinking to precipitate loud complaints and therefore perhaps, action.

[simonl]

The line is projected to carry 900k p.a.? That's about 1500 people per weekday on a round trip.

I didn't know that such pathetic patronage forecasts were in the public domain. Even I'm not that negative about it unless it is already taking into consideration the round trip? I think that would be about right.

[mandonov]

So I'm assuming this row is over the proposed Northern Line timetable, yes?
Because this line makes no sense as the 'North West' doesn't have rail services to begin with:

"The broadcaster wants to see whether rail services to people in Sydney's North West will be reduced once the Epping to Chatswood Metro conversion begins operating in 2018."

This being about the Northern Line also puts into context the line saying the timetable will be locked down 6 months before the Metro's opening, i.e when the ECRL is shut down.

[Glen]

So I'm assuming this row is over the proposed Northern Line timetable, yes?

I'd expect so. They mean what happens to trains currently running Hornsby - Epping - Chatswood - City.

I think quite a few commuters might be in for a big surprise.

[simonl]

Let's hope they shaft the northern line. It's a lot better for everyone than shafting the Western Line which is much more intensively used. Also, if the upper northern line goes to Central (i), there's more of an incentive to go via Chatswood and perhaps via Hornsby still.

[rogf24]

Isn't it going to be 5 tph Upper Northern semi-fast + 5 tph Lower Northern local? So a small boost to the existing service unless you have to change to the metro for Macquarie Park and North Shore.

[Fleet Lists]

All still speculation.

[mandonov]

Biggest winner may be Rhodes which is just crying out for more services.

[simonl]

Isn't it going to be 5 tph Upper Northern semi-fast + 5 tph Lower Northern local? So a small boost to the existing service unless you have to change to the metro for Macquarie Park and North Shore.

That was leaked as the 2019 service plan, which also means a reduction of 6 trains into Town Hall for the Western Line.

Still a lot of water to flow under the bridge though.

My local state member (Liberal) when I lived in Sydney: "Nah nah, we aren't reducing the services for the western line. We're spending a billion dollars!". Or words to that effect. What a douche!

[Frosty]

But that still leaves 4 tph left 5tph Semi Fast Northern, 5tph stopping Northern, 6tph Western Line. There is still a few City Circle slots. I've got question is it possible to have more Homebush all stops train on the Inner West Line without having to reduce South Line trains or make them stop at all stations. As Homebush local trains are running at like 140+ % capacity.

That's going to be quite tough scheduling the Northern Line with only two tracks over the Parramatta River at Meadowbank.

[Rails]

I believe we were supposed to see this issue dealt with via the $1B investment in the upgrade of the Western line corridor between Westmead and North Sydney and the Parramatta Turn Back. The Western line upgrade was to deliver upgrades including signaling to be able to support 24 TPH on the Suburbans between Strathfield and North Sydney. There was little info available for this project but I had seen hints that it would also include works at the Illawarra Junction and the ability to run 10/12 car trains into ST.

However while we have seen the start on the Parramatta Turnback project meaning we will see all Western line trains running express at least between Parramatta and Strathfield, I think that the Western line upgrade project has been swallowed up by the Western Sydney Rail Needs Scoping Study so I dont think the public now know where its all at other than that we are getting a West Metro line in some form.