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Introducing OPAL Card

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion

Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Postby matthewg » Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:51 am

moa999 wrote:As has the Android version.
Also autofills with any card details saved in GooglePay (still requires CVV)


That does not happen on my Nexus 5x. And the card is in Google Pay as I paid the fare by tapping my phone. 'Public Transport' taps are recorded in Google Pay.

On my desktop, Google Chrome does pop up and offer to fill in the details, but not the phone.
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Postby moa999 » Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:28 am

Doesn't happen automatically.
I need to tap in CC field and up pops a box listing the various cards I have registered.
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Postby matthewg » Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:50 pm

moa999 wrote:Doesn't happen automatically.
I need to tap in CC field and up pops a box listing the various cards I have registered.


Not for me. The number keypad pops up. No offer to autofill. The Nexus 5x is one major release of Android behind now. (8.1.0)

I can't even paste the card number in, the paste function is blocked. Every other data entry box in the App I can paste text into, but not any field on the Credit Card details screen.

Hopefully, eventually, the card number can be registered to the Opal account and entering the card number each time will not be necessary. That's what the TfL contactless site does - the card number is registered against your TfL login. Login and select the card to see it's usage history. (Which include stop/station names!)
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Postby Fleet Lists » Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:01 pm

That is fine for people with an Opal Card but I thought contactless was basically intended for people without an Opal Card.
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Postby moa999 » Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:35 pm

matthewg wrote:Not for me. The number keypad pops up. No offer to autofill. The Nexus 5x is one major release of Android behind now. (8.1.0)


I'm using a Nokia running 9.0 so maybe that's it.
If you go into Chrome Browser. Settings-Payment methods, is auto-fill set to on can you see card details?
(I think the app is just a skinned browser window)
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Postby matthewg » Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:06 am

Fleet Lists wrote:That is fine for people with an Opal Card but I thought contactless was basically intended for people without an Opal Card.


The trend internationally is 'contactless' will replace 'closed-loop' operator-specific cards. Google and Apple are adding support for such cards (Mobile Myki in Melbourne for example), but the future is using 'open loop' EMV format cards issued by banks.

It might take a few years, but I fully expect they will cease offering Adult Opal cards. They will live on only for concession fares and staff passes, even that will die eventually, they will just register a specific card number to get special fares. The specific card may have Opal branding all over it, but it will be a bank-issued EMV card, not a transport operator issued MiFare card.

The Uni I worked for several years ago issued student ID cards that were also bank debit cards. They stopped doing it when the access control system moved to MiFare prox cards - it was too much trouble to have bank contactless and prox security access applications on the same chip. (Technically possible but no one wants to muck around doing the interop testing of two applications on the one card). But it does mean the banks are quite happy to do co-branded cards.

See
https://www.auspaynet.com.au/sites/defa ... keting.pdf
for some background. (Interview with TfL about open-loop ticketing)

The trend is obvious. Opal as we know it is now dying. It will take years, but the direction is now set away from the Opal MiFare Desfire EV1 closed-loop system.
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Postby Campbelltown busboy » Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:13 pm

matthewg wrote:The trend internationally is 'contactless' will replace 'closed-loop' operator-specific cards. Google and Apple are adding support for such cards (Mobile Myki in Melbourne for example), but the future is using 'open loop' EMV format cards issued by banks.

It might take a few years, but I fully expect they will cease offering Adult Opal cards. They will live on only for concession fares and staff passes, even that will die eventually, they will just register a specific card number to get special fares. The specific card may have Opal branding all over it, but it will be a bank-issued EMV card, not a transport operator issued MiFare card.

The Uni I worked for several years ago issued student ID cards that were also bank debit cards. They stopped doing it when the access control system moved to MiFare prox cards - it was too much trouble to have bank contactless and prox security access applications on the same chip. (Technically possible but no one wants to muck around doing the interop testing of two applications on the one card). But it does mean the banks are quite happy to do co-branded cards.

See
https://www.auspaynet.com.au/sites/defa ... keting.pdf
for some background. (Interview with TfL about open-loop ticketing)

The trend is obvious. Opal as we know it is now dying. It will take years, but the direction is now set away from the Opal MiFare Desfire EV1 closed-loop system.
A future government might one day experiment with facial recognition to use as a payment method option for public transport fares
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Postby boronia » Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:15 pm

Constance was talking about this a couple of weeks back.
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Postby moa999 » Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:38 pm

Scary as a concept but not far from possible.

But massive cost in installing high res cameras and all the backend processing and network links. Cards are far cheaper.
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Postby matthewg » Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:57 am

Campbelltown busboy wrote: A future government might one day experiment with facial recognition to use as a payment method option for public transport fares


I suspect any such proposal will get tied up in court action for years. The trouble with the idea is it's not opt-in. It's blanket everyone. You walk past a camera, you are IDed. If they cover the 'gateline' with hires facial recognition capable cameras, that system is IDing EVERYONE that walks past.
They might not have a name and a bank account number for everyone that walks past, but the system has your image and there will be an ID code associated with it. They can pretend all they like that it will be opt-in, but the data is collected whether you register or not.
The data set so collected is so ripe for mining other data like fare evaders and then people who catch the train to anti-government protests. All for your own safety of course.
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Postby boronia » Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:23 pm

I believe they are already linking CCTV images to Opal cards. If the card is not registered, they still have an image of you on file.
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Postby matthewg » Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:38 am

boronia wrote:I believe they are already linking CCTV images to Opal cards. If the card is not registered, they still have an image of you on file.


Not automatically I believe, but it's not hard for a skilled operator to match up the card tap log with the CCTV timestamp. It might take them viewing several stations or days worth of CCTV to be sure of a match if they are all crowded stations, but they will be able to do it.
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Postby Jurassic_Joke » Fri Aug 09, 2019 2:38 pm

I really love the new lowered weekly cap. I reach it Thursday night or Friday arvo. Perfecto 8)

It is actually quite similar to the old 8 and free scheme in terms if you spent that much on 8 trips and then get to enjoy free unrestricted travel for the rest of the week instead of half price fares
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Postby crazyturbo76 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:19 pm

I don't know if anyone has posted news about this yet but Region 1 is running contactless payments for Opal cards as from today - https://www.busways.com.au/news-items/c ... dney-buses
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Postby matthewg » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:21 am

Jurassic_Joke wrote:I really love the new lowered weekly cap. I reach it Thursday night or Friday arvo. Perfecto 8)

It is actually quite similar to the old 8 and free scheme in terms if you spent that much on 8 trips and then get to enjoy free unrestricted travel for the rest of the week instead of half price fares


Only if you live far enough out and commute far enough to hit the cap. I used to get free weekend travel, which I did take advantage of. It will take several more fare increases before I hit the new (lower) weekly cap. Knowing my luck the fare increase that means I hit the $50 cap will be accompanied by an increase in the cap to ensure the number of people hitting it doesn't increase too much.

I obviously live to close to my place of employment.
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Postby Jurassic_Joke » Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:11 pm

matthewg wrote:
Jurassic_Joke wrote:I really love the new lowered weekly cap. I reach it Thursday night or Friday arvo. Perfecto 8)

It is actually quite similar to the old 8 and free scheme in terms if you spent that much on 8 trips and then get to enjoy free unrestricted travel for the rest of the week instead of half price fares


Only if you live far enough out and commute far enough to hit the cap. I used to get free weekend travel, which I did take advantage of. It will take several more fare increases before I hit the new (lower) weekly cap. Knowing my luck the fare increase that means I hit the $50 cap will be accompanied by an increase in the cap to ensure the number of people hitting it doesn't increase too much.

I obviously live to close to my place of employment.


Not just how far out you live from Sydney (or wherever your workplace is), but also number of trips taken. I don't live that far from the CBD, but the number of trips I take = I will most often reach the new cap anyway.

It's worth noting the new weekly cap can be reached after just over 3 daily caps ($16.10 x 3 = $48.30). It's actually quite easy to reach the daily cap if you take the train during peak or any ferry. If you have three 'splurge' days (or day excursions) Monday Tuesday Wednesday, that puts you in a good position to reach the cap.

The big issue I constantly had with the system before June 2019 was, was that the reward after 8 trips was pretty minimal for people that lived close to the city and commuted heaps. The daily / sunday cap wasn't even reduced in half, meaning the more you travelled, the less your discount actually became. You'd get in this very awkward limbo where you'd spend close to the weekly cap of $62 made up of little half price fares, but never actually reach it. The cut to $50 fixes that big issue I had, it means even on travel reward, I reach the cap by Thursday night / Friday morning and then enjoy free travel on the weekend. Certainly no gaming the system here - just travelling as much as I like/want.
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Postby Stonesourscotty » Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:37 am

Busways Penrith Single door fleet appears to have the Opal MasterCard/Visa stickers applied to the buses seen three this morning all have them not seen a single dual door bus with one yet

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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Postby swtt » Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:46 am

Used a week of contact less travel last week.

Very annoyed with how it only says "Tap Success" and doesn't give more useful information, such as "Tap on success" or "Tap off success", or something like that.

Never mind not displaying how much the journey cost. [emoji848] But the lack of "Tap on reversed" is a problem. Not even "Transfer" was shown when it should've been shown.

Back to the good old Opal this week. Faster response from the readers as well!

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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Postby moa999 » Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:30 am

Function of how it works - the Opal equipment can't write any on/off state to a contactless card - it simply reads the card number then passes it to backend.

I also tried contactless on my Nokia mobile using an Amex via Google Pay after leaving the house without my wallet. Four gates there and back. Two worked well. The other two it didn't - phone responded with a tick but still a red screen. Had to wait some time to try again. Eventually got through but wouldn't want to do it in peak.

Was charged correctly at least after logging into portal using card number.

Also everytime you login to the contactless portal you get hit with a $1 pre-auth.
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Postby Fleet Lists » Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:37 pm

https://transportnsw.info/news/2019/con ... s#homepage is a list of contactless areas which have been converted including Dions, Hillsbus and Busway in Sydney.
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Postby Campbelltown busboy » Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:20 pm

This article I came across on the Australian bus magazine website sounds interesting and might put an and to every contactless or smart card system in the world
https://www.busnews.com.au/industry-new ... rd-tapping
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Postby boronia » Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:37 pm

Constance was talking up some of these "technologies" a few weeks back.
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Postby Jurassic_Joke » Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:21 pm

Yeah I am certain that the Opal website its on its way to slowly but surely die the same way the Sydney Trains website did. The news section is empty except for literal encouragment that you just go to transportnsw.info, if you click Opal Fares they also then say the information you want to know is at transportnsw.info....

Might be a few months (or more/less) early but was nice knowing you, Opal website. You did well assisting Opal's publicity in the early days, with an easy interface and overall had a good run.
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Postby BeauGiles » Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:10 am

Transit Systems West is the latest bus operator to have the contactless payment technology fitted, so you can now tap on and off using your credit card on Opal readers on Transit Systems West bus services in Tempe, Marrickville, Sydenham, Newtown, Canterbury and Dulwich Hill.


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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Postby Jurassic_Joke » Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:29 pm

“Opal Bus” Stickers being replaced now

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