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STA Observations - July to December 2018

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Re: STA Observations - July to December 2018

Postby hornetfig » Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:44 pm

J_Busworth wrote:Glad to see W dispatchers up to their usual antics today. Saw at least two Bondi Link bendies operating off the 333, one on a M40 and one on a X77. Also saw a VSTM on the 333.


Both of those may have operated one or more 333 services during the day...
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Re: STA Observations - July to December 2018

Postby Swift » Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:58 pm

^I still think it was more trouble than it's worth to have any sort of dedicated treatment for a route. Don't they remember as far back as the 555?
I think it was to avoid the appearance of surplus red Metrobuses on the route without having to repaint them.
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Re: STA Observations - July to December 2018

Postby Jurassic_Joke » Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:16 pm

Swift wrote:^I still think it was more trouble than it's worth to have any sort of dedicated treatment for a route. Don't they remember as far back as the 555?
I think it was to avoid the appearance of surplus red Metrobuses on the route without having to repaint them.


Ads. Ads. Not being able to see outside. Not one or two windows, but the entire bus. Oh wait, once again, I find it so ironic beloved pensioner (voter?) priority seat at the front, that window, is without fail always exempt from getting ad's on it, including in the blue 333 livery.

The 333 didn't need this ad-wrap, regardless of windows in my opinion. It's not a new bus route. But then again, 10 years on from Metrobus, we're regularly seeing Metrobus buses regularly on normal routes, so whats the issue. 10 years from now we will see 333-liveried buses all over Sydney :D

Also one final thing, since September 30, M40 has lost its novelty status of being the final Metrobus to have a consistently +- 100% bendy bus service. There are now also several standard buses, from Waverley, operating on it, including the 0405NH. The late night bus service to Wynyard is standard buses only too, lol, why call it M40, why not 340 then s/ May as well start taking apart Metrobus whats left of it piece by piece, not much left of the original concept.
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Re: STA Observations - July to December 2018

Postby Swift » Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:29 pm

^They can't help themselves. This collective mental disorder in the "organisation" (oxymoron anyone? -with emphasis on the second part of the word), stretches back to the Metroline branding on buses for the 400 -which actually lasted quite a few years before the half arsed effort for route 200 buses Chatswood to Bondi Jcn, before falling our of favour altogether for both. These branding exercises are ego strokes for whomever is employed at the time in the organisation who introduces it. Everybody wants their turn to be a God.
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Re: STA Observations - July to December 2018

Postby Stu » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:41 pm

The NSW Lib government are obsessed with creating brands for public transport. This is just grandstanding and boasting about how good public transport can look in its appearance. The fancy brands divert attention and cover up the operational failings particularly across the train and bus networks respectively. The bureaucrats create projects whereby large amounts of funding is allocated with very little return in value for money when this funding should be spent elsewhere within the transport network.
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Re: STA Observations - July to December 2018

Postby Swift » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:03 pm

^ blatant smoke and mirrors game.
Reminds me of the Greiner era when the white colourbond fencing and boring new signage was appearing on railway stations to dress them up as a modernising system to make it look like everything was improving before our eyes. Meanwhile, cuts to public transport was occurring elsewhere, including new and existing rolling stock orders.
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Re: STA Observations - July to December 2018

Postby tonyp » Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:04 am

Stu wrote:The NSW Lib government are obsessed with creating brands for public transport. This is just grandstanding and boasting about how good public transport can look in its appearance. The fancy brands divert attention and cover up the operational failings particularly across the train and bus networks respectively. The bureaucrats create projects whereby large amounts of funding is allocated with very little return in value for money when this funding should be spent elsewhere within the transport network.

All governments do that but the Liberals have been investing in earnest in projects across the board far more than any previous Labor administration has done since Wran. Although the buck nominally stops with the politicians of the day, I think the government is very badly let down by TfNSW. It's unreasonable to expect a Minister to know the details of how his or her administration should function unless they happen to have a professional background in that sector. They have to rely on advice from their public service who are supposed to be the skilled and experienced professionals in that field. Both sides of politics since Greiner have been responsible for ruining the transport agencies and what the politicians haven't accomplished, the agencies have successfully finished the job off themselves. The question is now how to put it back together again. Start at the top and go on a major headhunting expedition to WA?
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Re: STA Observations - July to December 2018

Postby Ray » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:25 am

Metrobus was introduced under Labor - hence, presumably, the lack of interest by the current administration in supporting the concept.
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Re: STA Observations - July to December 2018

Postby tonyp » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:57 am

Ray wrote:Metrobus was introduced under Labor - hence, presumably, the lack of interest by the current administration in supporting the concept.

Well that would be on the principle of whatever the other party does, we should do the opposite!

The current Labor transport policy doesn't seem to be a policy as such, rather a statement of opposing, altering or watering down whatever the present government has done.
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Re: STA Observations - July to December 2018

Postby Ray » Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:20 pm

And by the time they get back in, they will have forgotten all about Metrobus!

Always thought it was a dud experiment from the start.
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Re: STA Observations - July to December 2018

Postby Jurassic_Joke » Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:23 pm

Ray wrote:And by the time they get back in, they will have forgotten all about Metrobus!

Always thought it was a dud experiment from the start.


Metrobus was a dud because Labor. Well, not just Labor, but because the fact that they rushed it.

Firstly, the on-board announcements and stop information, was rushed through, they forgot to implement it on the Western Sydney Metrobuses (cuz Western Sydney just isn't good enough, right?), making the brand look cheap. Then Labor lost the election not too long afterwards, and I assume it was the Liberals' don't-care-because-its-from-Labor attitude saw the on-board announcements and realtime stops die off because the software/infrastructure wasn't taken care of then anymore.

What I have more contempt though, is the bus itself. That was rushed through to meet an election deadline - i don't know why they bothered, they knew their historically low standing in the poll and that nothing would save them. The bus. So, some prototype Metrobuses. 2108, nah, just a slightly longer standard bus, almost identical clone of then-new CDC buses. 2109, 2110, slightly altered versions of existing Custom bendies. But 2111 (Scania K310UA) and 2112 (Scania N310UA) were something unique, something new, something special. 2111 has merit with lots of standing room in both the front and rear salon, and the plethora of single seats (I understand these are popular) too. Good window views too. 2112 has merit because its the only 100% low floor end-to-end bus in NSW. That's amazing right? Passenger flow through the bus is so much easier when theres no steps or hills. That and the limosine-style bench seats in the rear articulation were just cool as as well.

From what I understand, correct me if i'm wrong anyone, 2112 'won' the trial and was what was meant to be the final Metrobus product. Ie, we should've had 150 of those, but then not only Scania had production problems, instead of waiting for them to buck up, Labor decided to rush through with Volvo Volgren bendies, that had absolutely nothing special in interior design, that was meant to be specific to the Metrobus concept itself. And why did they rush instead of just waiting? Because an election was just around the corner. Just rush an order of what is, in my opinion, one of the most forgettable and bland buses in STA's fleet. It's not uncomfortable, like the Bustech. But, bland, and ad placements on all the low floor seats is just so irritating. We could have set a real precedent for the future of buses in Sydney if we had that 100% low floor bus, but nope, because Labor, that concepts just gone straight to the bin to be forgotten about likely forever.

So thats why Metrobus is a dud. Because it was rushed. With the removal of on-board announcements, stops and now in 2018, we've seen standard buses almost completely take over most Metrobus routes (TSA clearly has a shortage and should order new bendies), with all that, Metrobus is almost dead I think. Deserves to die. Oh and, Labor, next time - every 20 minutes on weekends, every 15 minutes weekday offpeak. That is NOT turn up and go. Just so you know, for next time.
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Re: STA Observations - July to December 2018

Postby Frosty » Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:41 pm

Ray wrote:And by the time they get back in, they will have forgotten all about Metrobus!

Always thought it was a dud experiment from the start.


I have a personal theory many of the earlier metrobus routes the m10 & m20 on the southern end ran through then Premier Kristina Keneally's own electorate or nearby to it co-incidence not. Then some of the others m30 & m50 ran through either safe Labor seats or marginals.
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Re: STA Observations - July to December 2018

Postby Swift » Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:50 pm

Jurassic_Joke wrote:2112 has merit because its the only 100% low floor end-to-end bus in NSW. That's amazing right? Passenger flow through the bus is so much easier when theres no steps or hills. That and the limosine-style bench seats in the rear articulation were just cool as as well.

From what I understand, correct me if i'm wrong anyone, 2112 'won' the trial and was what was meant to be the final Metrobus product. Ie, we should've had 150 of those, but then not only Scania had production problems, instead of waiting for them to buck up, Labor decided to rush through with Volvo Volgren bendies, that had absolutely nothing special in interior design, that was meant to be specific to the Metrobus concept itself. And why did they rush instead of just waiting? Because an election was just around the corner. Just rush an order of what is, in my opinion, one of the most forgettable and bland buses in STA's fleet. It's not uncomfortable, like the Bustech. But, bland, and ad placements on all the low floor seats is just so irritating. We could have set a real precedent for the future of buses in Sydney if we had that 100% low floor bus, but nope, because Labor, that concepts just gone straight to the bin to be forgotten about likely forever.

I imagine 150 Scania N310UBs would have saved a lot of fuel over the notoriously fuel heavy Volvo B12BLEA monsters over the years. It was Scania's fault as well that we missed out on this opportunity to be served by a significant number of these ground breaking buses. Instead, Scania missed out on a large order and their vastly superior offering was relegated to being a once off curiosity.
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Re: STA Observations - July to December 2018

Postby Frosty » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:19 pm

^ Don't feel too bad for Scania Swift recent large number of Scania orders from STA K280UBs & successor K310UBs. Anyways aren't some of regular B12BLEs been detuned to save fuel.
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Re: STA Observations - July to December 2018

Postby kypros1992 » Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:02 am

So thats why Metrobus is a dud. Because it was rushed. With the removal of on-board announcements, stops and now in 2018, we've seen standard buses almost completely take over most Metrobus routes (TSA clearly has a shortage and should order new bendies), with all that, Metrobus is almost dead I think. Deserves to die. Oh and, Labor, next time - every 20 minutes on weekends, every 15 minutes weekday offpeak. That is NOT turn up and go. Just so you know, for next time.


No it wasn't. It was the first time Transport NSW at the time put out a system of corridor based routes and importantly made it 'clear'.

Before, every route was CBD or Station based servicing some remote suburb with an infrequent timetable and it was also the first time bus routes had a frequency based advertised and not just the to a timetable.

The on-board announcements where the responsibility of the operator. In the early days of Metrobus, most STA buses had them on whereas Veolia and CDC opt out and every bus 99% of the time was in the correct livery

Yes it wasn't perfect like a true BRT but it was a step in the right direction, kind of like a copy of Boston's Silver Line network.
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Re: STA Observations - July to December 2018

Postby tonyp » Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:34 am

kypros1992 wrote:No it wasn't. It was the first time Transport NSW at the time put out a system of corridor based routes and importantly made it 'clear'.

Before, every route was CBD or Station based servicing some remote suburb with an infrequent timetable and it was also the first time bus routes had a frequency based advertised and not just the to a timetable.

The on-board announcements where the responsibility of the operator. In the early days of Metrobus, most STA buses had them on whereas Veolia and CDC opt out and every bus 99% of the time was in the correct livery

Yes it wasn't perfect like a true BRT but it was a step in the right direction, kind of like a copy of Boston's Silver Line network.

It seems to me that it was a belated attempt to restore some of the capacity that the tram system had along major corridors. I remember in some early press, images of Hess-like double articulated, low-floor, multi-door buses were floating around (like the vehicles now proposed for the Brisbane busways) but it became obvious that these vehicles weren't going to be permitted on Australian roads, so it dropped down a notch to standard single-articulated buses. Scania's N310UA in being fully low-floor represented the original concept but then after acquiring one orphan it dropped back to stock standard Sydney-style artics, though at least with 3 doors.

So what high-capacity solution replaces the former tram routes now, apart from 333?
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Re: STA Observations - July to December 2018

Postby BAMBAM » Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:01 pm

Can’t really say metrobus is a dud, it could’ve been roll out better and implemented better but the branding worked, it did grow in terms of passengers numbers and it still exist to this day, where timetables for metrobus services have continued to increased frequency and more higher capacity buses have been ordered, from all parties STA, Veolia now Transdev and CDC.
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Re: STA Observations - July to December 2018

Postby Swift » Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:12 pm

I hope the routes remain, even if the original concept hasn't.
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Re: STA Observations - July to December 2018

Postby J_Busworth » Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:14 am

Swift wrote:I hope the routes remain, even if the original concept hasn't.


Given they appear to have survived the privatisation and weren’t split in half like some of the cross regionals, I think they could be around for a little while longer. Light Rail opening would be an apt time to dismantle the original network.
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Re: STA Observations - July to December 2018

Postby boronia » Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:37 pm

The m10 and m50 might have survived privatisation, but they no longer appear in eastern region maps.

Both are due to go when the tram services start.
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Re: STA Observations - July to December 2018

Postby Frosty » Sat Oct 13, 2018 6:31 pm

boronia wrote:The m10 and m50 might have survived privatisation, but they no longer appear in eastern region maps.

Both are due to go when the tram services start.


Well it is due to the silly NSW practice of each operator producing maps for their own region and not including any other operators.

J_Busworth wrote:Given they appear to have survived the privatisation and weren’t split in half like some of the cross regionals, I think they could be around for a little while longer. Light Rail opening would be an apt time to dismantle the original network.


Some cross regionals have survived the 370, 348, 352. Mainly the shorter cross regionals or the ones that cant be easily split i.e. 370.
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Re: STA Observations - July to December 2018

Postby Fleet Lists » Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:19 pm

Frosty wrote:Well it is due to the silly NSW practice of each operator producing maps for their own region and not including any other operators.

.

It is interesting that I have just found this map https://transportnsw.info/document/3513 ... on-map.pdf for the Northern Beaches hospital which opens on 30 October with this joint Forest and STA map
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Re: STA Observations - July to December 2018

Postby Swift » Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:45 pm

Fleet Lists wrote:It is interesting that I have just found this map https://transportnsw.info/document/3513 ... on-map.pdf for the Northern Beaches hospital which opens on 30 October with this joint Forest and STA map

Probably because the current owners of Forest don't care about being associated with a government bus operation.
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Re: STA Observations - July to December 2018

Postby Frosty » Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:17 pm

Swift wrote:
Fleet Lists wrote:It is interesting that I have just found this map https://transportnsw.info/document/3513 ... on-map.pdf for the Northern Beaches hospital which opens on 30 October with this joint Forest and STA map

Probably because the current owners of Forest don't care about being associated with a government bus operation.


I remember there are University Campus maps that have various bus routes can't seem to find them at the moment. I can't remember if they include one or multiple operators.
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Re: STA Observations - July to December 2018

Postby boronia » Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:31 pm

"precinct" and interchange maps seem to show all services, but "region" maps trend to be operator specific.

It is ridiculous to expect customers to know they have to look at "Inner West" maps to find services to Bondi Junction and Coogee.
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