Ski transport

General Transport Discussion not specific to one state
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Roderick Smith
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Joined: Mon May 28, 2012 8:44 pm

Ski transport

Post by Roderick Smith »

This covers Vic. & NSW (and Tas. to a minor extent), so I am placing it with General Transport.
We have had reports and photos of tour buses parked at ski resorts. As with Ayers Rock, it is possible to find buses from a huge range of operators in one place, at one time.
Skitube also gets post. This was a project about which public-transport devotees were sceptical, but it has succeeded. There was also the famous opening year, with Tasmanian buses in the tunnel from Perisher to Blue Cow.
Mountain transport from sub-alpine villages to resorts gets some mention.
On top of this, there is the in-village transport, and oversnow to Charlotte Pass.
Then comes the mass of ski tows and ski lifts. Very few transport enthusiasts are skiers, and hence don't appreciate the scale of operation, and the amazing similarities to urban transport re peaks, capacity, ticketing and passenger satisfaction.
I have been skiing since 1977, and have seen the many changes at many resorts.

We have lost street cable trams, but the technology lives on at ski resorts, with some impressive passenger statistics.
Ski lifts have a surprising affinity to other fixed public transport. For some, the peak period is 8 hours straight. For others there are peaks and troughs through the day, as the surge starts on easy slopes, moves to harder ones, heads off to lunch, then the party brigade is out of bed for 14.00, and the weather comes and goes.
Inadequate capacity has been a problem, with queues of 20 min at peaks, and up to 30 min at the worst-serviced resorts.
Companies do employ loaders to group people so that no space is wasted, and to help people on so that lifts don't have to be stopped.
Blue Cow did employ electric barrier gates, tag on for every ride with a ticket worn in a holder on elastic strap. That was wildly unpopular, and was removed after one season. It also had a kilometre ticket rather than a time-based ticket. That was also unpopular. All resorts work on genuine proof of purchase, with random checking, and all day, just morning, just afternoon. Single-ride tickets are just for tourists, and are available only on limited lifts. There are packages for beginners with lesson and restricted lifts. Now, smart tickets are vogue, scanned on the run while staying in a pocket, with scanners at strategic queues, not every queue. Random checking is still performed, hand held.
I have been skiing for sufficiently long to see double chairs replaced with triple, then quad (very common), and now hex and oct. Likewise, rope tows and pomas have given way to T-bars, and many T-bars have given way to chairs (greater capacity, and freeing valuable snow space for skiing).
From the current (2017) season: With 22 lifts, Mt Buller has the largest lift network in Victoria, including thirteen chairlifts (three of which are high speed detachables) four T-bars, two rope tows (counted as one) and four magic carpets.
For safety of boarding and alighting, all ski tows/lifts run on 6 s headways.
At a quick estimate, Buller equates to 15 x 4 x 10 x 60 = 36 000 riders per hour.
A traditional peak had ~20 000 people on the mountain, so only two rides per hour at best. I have more-detailed figures in research files.
Perisher will have the most lifts in Australia, because it is an amalgamation of original Perisher, once-separate Smiggin Holes, and once-independent Blue Cow, which had absorbed once-independent Guthega.
I will add to this thread.
Even if you aren't a skier, it is a great environment in which to sit in a bar and watch it all happen, with a midday visit to the carpark to photograph the variety.

Roderick
CCCC
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Re: Ski transport

Post by CCCC »

From my experience I found the best part of the snowy mountains was summer.
Roderick Smith
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Re: Ski transport

Post by Roderick Smith »

In the preamble, I noted that ski tows and lifts are the successor to cable trams. There are also lots of other cableways for tourism, and a there were some industrial ones.
Skiing as a means of transport has existed for a few thousand years. Skiing as a recreation dates from about the 1850s (the invention of bindings). Skiing in Australia started at the Kiandra goldfields. History likes to note that Kiandra hosted the world's first ski race (or the first international one), but the claim may be faulty.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiandra,_New_South_Wales
There are two main disciplines: cross country / Nordic (basically level) and downhill / alpine. Early downhill skiers had to spend a long time walking uphill for only a short time skiing down. From the 1880s, the growth of the field-naturalist movement led to alpine exploration in all seasons, and accommodation in the regions, with snowplay. Kiandra, Kosciusko [now Kosciuszko] and Mt Buffalo were early resorts. When VR took over Mt Buffalo Chalet, it expanded facilities, and publicised the sport. Australia's first ski tow was built there, in 1937. This was a car, on blocks at the top of a slope, with a rope wound around a rear wheel (the drum, with the tyre removed). Wikipedia claims Dingo Dell, but I doubt that. Cresta had been the skiing area before WWII. I have seen a photo, but a hunt of PROV is not bringing it up. That tow lasted for 2 years.
http://wikiski.com/wiki/index.php/Mt_Buffalo
Other areas were being opened up by clubs. I have no date for the first rope tow, but the technology was easy, and clubs built them. There are some survivors today, and more-sophisticated variants.
http://wikiski.com/wiki/index.php/Non_resort_rope_tows (worth opening for the photos, as I can't find mine fast).
Rope tows were restricted in length, and could be quite hard to hold. Longer tows used intermediate pulleys (usually car-wheel drums) to keep the rope at a convenient height. These were treacherous for hands, and were gripped with a wire clamp, dubbed a 'nutcracker'. As resorts grew, these became inadequate for capacity, and were replaced with more-elaborate tows. There may be some at grass-skiing and sand-dune places, and I suspect at those pop up snow slopes built in city squares in summer.
The more sophisticated versions have pop up flaps on the rope, against which a skier rests buttocks, and is pushed up the slope. These are known as J bars. Today, Guthega has one. Mt Buller has two short rope tows, used simply for access trails to lodges.
I have had no luck finding my photos, so have a few flickr links. There are lots more (search on rope tow), but they don't add new detail.
Rope tow no nutcracker https://www.flickr.com/photos/152792845@N07/32530666083. Ok for short and shallow slopes, but hard to hold on with steeper slopes.
straightforward https://www.flickr.com/photos/8304370@N05/5406425072.
nutcracker https://www.flickr.com/photos/28309367@N05/4003311567. Important for pulleys, and steeper slopes. Essentially the same sort of grip as is used for suspended cablecars.
broken River NZ https://www.flickr.com/photos/yungraphik/2810356785.
j bar https://www.flickr.com/photos/anitaburke/24980371039: the bar sits downwards when not in use, and is flipped up behind the buttocks when riding. This provides greater comfort, and lets the skier hold a better position.
a variation, not seen in Australia https://www.flickr.com/photos/tarica/5429188565. With this sophistication, sprung or fixed platters would normally be used.

Roderick.
Last edited by Roderick Smith on Mon Jun 05, 2017 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Fleet Lists
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Re: Ski transport

Post by Fleet Lists »

CCCC wrote:From my experience I found the best part of the snowy mountains was summer.
Obviously like me, you are not a skier.
Living in the Shire.
Roderick Smith
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Joined: Mon May 28, 2012 8:44 pm

Re: Ski transport

Post by Roderick Smith »

I have just added some photo links to the rope-tow chapter. You certainly don't have to be a skier to appreciate the transport aspects, but you do have to go in winter to see everything happening; on the snow and in the carparks. Summer is also great in the alps (beats the beach) but everything will be quieter and emptier. If you are a mate of a snow-endorsed driver, you may well be able to cadge a ride on a day-trip charter. At Mt Buller, there is a free shuttle bus to the village, and you have a choice of bars and restaurants in the middle of the action. Elsewhere, you can buy a tourist single-ride ticket to a restaurant with a view. There is something very impressive at the end of the day watching 20-40 charter buses warming the engines and the cabin, waiting for the group to arrive, and then easing out with care, one every few minutes, as the sun sets. If I can't delete this post, I'll edit it into the next instalment: the poma. I'll cover the various lift and chair types, and capacities, then transport to the resorts, transport within the resorts, ticketing, various ancillary transport items. It is big business, but it is very peaked in Australia (short seasons), and seasons not much longer overseas.
There must be members in this large group who have snow-endorsed bus licences, and who are involved in the scene regularly. They could well add lots of anecdotes.
Roderick.
Roderick Smith
Posts: 1321
Joined: Mon May 28, 2012 8:44 pm

Re: Ski transport

Post by Roderick Smith »

I don't have the poma notes assembled, and this morning's paper has an out-of-sequence pre-empt. Dog sleds are important for transport in arctic countries, and are used for competitions.
I was impressed when I saw a husky team hauling a sled at Mt Baw Baw, taking disabled kids for a ride in the environment (photo not scanned). There are various means for disabled people to ski (one legged, blind, on ski tricycles); these kids weren't even up to that. The activity was later banned by management (no dogs in national parks). There may be some sledding available at Mt Buller, and I thought that there was an event to Mt Stirling and back, but it seems not so. The main husky snow event is at Dinner Plain (Vic.).

170612M Melbourne 'Herald Sun', Mt Buller. This is just a bit of fun in the village, and isn't a husky.

http://www.siberianhuskyvic.org.au/sledding/: a good introduction to the hobby, with some Australian snow-sled photos.
Famous in Australian history are Mawson's and Shackleton's Antarctica adventures, using dogsleds.
Sleighs are for formed icy roads, not mountains.
Much later in the series I will reach today's mechanised versions.

Also related are the images of St Bernard dogs bringing casks of alcohol to lost skiers.

Roderick
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