Design A Bus Or Coach:Your ideas.

[Denv12]

Here's something to think about.Design a bus or coach.What would make the ideal bus and coach? Start with your favourite chassis of all time? What do you want in it to make it the ultimate? How many seats? For a coach,do you want a high deck or double deck or your standard Denning Denair type coach? Over to you.Have fun. You can add your own photoshopped photos or even drawings. That includes your own liveries.

[Bus Suggestions]

This is based on 1 of LT. Commander Data's ideas. Chuck out the middle door of a Volvo B8RLEA and make them 'hills spec', other wise, Volvo HillsSpec series B8RLEA

[Lt. Commander Data]

This is based on 1 of Lt. Commander Data's ideas. Chuck out the middle door of a Volvo B8RLEA and make them 'hills spec', other wise, Volvo HillsSpec series B8RLEA

At this point, I will question whether you know what "Hills Spec" actually means (I would be surprised if Adelaide gunzels knew, let alone WA ones; however I will not rule it out).

"Hills Spec" is essentially the term given to the Volvo B58 rigids (and possibly some of the B10Ms as well. More on them later) that operated out of Aldgate depot until the early 2000s. They had a different diff ratio, a smaller wheelbase, no centre door and essentially more power, so they cruised up the "old road" (i.e where the SE Freeway was before the construction on the Heysen Tunnels) at 80km/h (or so I am told). I am told they went up the SE Freeway quicker than the current fleet does as well. This was back before the government decided that actually stuff the Hills, they can have slow CB80s with the same power ratings (minus a centre door) like the rest of Adelaide does.

It's just as well TransitPlus/HillsTransit bought the fleet of Scania L94UB/Volgren CR224Ls, as what the government was buying at the time (MAN NL232 CNG/ABM CB62A and MAN 18.280 HOCL-NL/ABM CB64A) would be very un-suitable for Hills work. The NL232 CNGs are bad enough on flats; the 18.280s not too reliable. For the same reasons, there are rumours that the next fleet in the Hills will be Volvo Bxxx (whatever they're up to at the time)/Volgren Optimus buses, but they are only rumours as yet. Believe me, if an Optimus ever comes up to the Hills (or even into Adelaide), the whole country will hear about it.

The B10Ms had 2 doors, and were only (or mostly only) used on 861s (of course, back then it would have been the 161). Even today, experienced drivers prefer using 14.5m buses on 861 becuase they have 2 doors and passengers can enter/exit quicker. They were a lot slower than the B58s (from what I'm told), so I doubt they were "Hills Spec".

For interest's sake, the B58 artics were not "Hills Spec", as they took up to 20mins to climb the Hill. The SG280Hs that were up here weren't either (I can speak from personal experience here), they took ages to get up as well, and on hot days would even use Mount Barker Road (up Eagle on the Hill). The CB80s in the Hills are not "Hills Spec" either (and for that matter, neither are the L94UBs, K270s or 3225; however these go up the Hill better than the CB80s), or at least if they are you wouldn't know. The only remains of "Hills Spec" these days are the single-door buses in the Hills (i.e all but 3230, the 14.5s and the artics).

Back on topic: my idea of a bus would be a 14.5 Volvo B8RLE/Volgren Optimus - that would be interesting. A 14.5 CB80 would also be interesting (but probably crap like all other CB80s ).

[Hawkeye]

Back on topic: my idea of a bus would be a 14.5 Volvo B8RLE/Volgren Optimus - that would be interesting. A 14.5 CB80 would also be interesting (but probably crap like all other CB80s ).

Just had a look around, apparently the Volgren Optimus is available in a 14.5m variant! I'm yet to see any (pictures), but I'm sure we'll see some soon enough.

See here for where I got the relative information from: http://www.volgren.com.au/products/cr22 ... 4-5-metre/. I agree, it would be cool to see such a vehicle hit the streets

[tonyp]

A proper mass-transit citybus with 100% low floor, multiple doors and all-door loading is the obvious missing vehicle type in the Australian bus scene. Don't need a new design, it's already been done in various forms by numerous manufacturers - except Australian ones.

[boronia]

Back on topic: my idea of a bus would be a 14.5 Volvo B8RLE/Volgren Optimus - that would be interesting. A 14.5 CB80 would also be interesting (but probably crap like all other CB80s ).

Just had a look around, apparently the Volgren Optimus is available in a 14.5m variant! I'm yet to see any (pictures), but I'm sure we'll see some soon enough.

See here for where I got the relative information from: http://www.volgren.com.au/products/cr22 ... 4-5-metre/. I agree, it would be cool to see such a vehicle hit the streets

Is anyone actually buying 14.5s any more?

[Frosty]

Is Brisbane Transport buying anymore 14.5m they have a large fleet of them though. Hillsbus through TfNSW bought a large number of 14.5ms until they started to buy 12.5m Volvo Volgren Optimuses.

I know a 14.5m Bustech VST on a Scania K310UB chassis.

[Lt. Commander Data]

TransitPlus (now SouthLink) have 17 L94UB 14.5s with Volgren bodies (older ones the CR224L, the newer 3 CR228L) with the most recent being 2007. Hopefully they will be replaced with more 14.5s upon their removal, as artics aren't needed on most routes they operate on.

[Hawkeye]

TransitPlus (now SouthLink) have 17 L94UB 14.5s with Vilgren bodies (older ones the CR224L, the newer 3 CR228L) with the most recent being 2007. Hopefully they will be replaced with more 14.5s upon their removal, as artics aren't needed on most routes they operate on.

"Vilgren" ahaha

Post #250

[Lt. Commander Data]

TransitPlus (now SouthLink) have 17 L94UB 14.5s with Vilgren bodies (older ones the CR224L, the newer 3 CR228L) with the most recent being 2007. Hopefully they will be replaced with more 14.5s upon their removal, as artics aren't needed on most routes they operate on.

"Vilgren" ahaha

Post #250

Fixed now

[Roderick Smith]

Designing simply from a passenger-comfort view. I didn't do the design; I simply rode in comfort with some sleep. We might think of Laos as 'third world', but most such countries have better buses and better bus services than Australia has.
150724F Vientiane - Pakse (Laos): Sleeper bus. (Roderick Smith).
Another feature which has swept the world: an onboard toilet. I had one driver in Australia state before departing: 'We have a toilet, to comply with the law, but we don't want you to use it; I have locked the door'.
Another feature for a Smith bus: peel off the stickers 'No eating or drinking'.
Another feature which is quite uncommon: a buffet, with the ability to serve hot and cold. Surprisingly, Australia was a pioneer, the WAGR Scenicruisers of the early 1960s.
Lots of central and South American long-distance buses do serve cold tray meals, cold drinks, and hot drinks from airpots.
Most long distance in these countries and in Africa have a courier as well as a driver, but serve yourself from a microwave would work here.
I was once on a group charter in India. The courier had a tub of ice in the stairwell, loaded with beer, and kept us well served on the long and dreary haul from the day's railway sightseeing back to our Agra hotel.

Roderick B Smith
(retired Rail News Victoria Editor)

[Denv12]

Designing simply from a passenger-comfort view. I didn't do the design; I simply rode in comfort with some sleep. We might think of Laos as 'third world', but most such countries have better buses and better bus services than Australia has.
150724F Vientiane - Pakse (Laos): Sleeper bus. (Roderick Smith).
Another feature which has swept the world: an onboard toilet. I had one driver in Australia state before departing: 'We have a toilet, to comply with the law, but we don't want you to use it; I have locked the door'.
Another feature for a Smith bus: peel off the stickers 'No eating or drinking'.
Another feature which is quite uncommon: a buffet, with the ability to serve hot and cold. Surprisingly, Australia was a pioneer, the WAGR Scenicruisers of the early 1960s.
Lots of central and South American long-distance buses do serve cold tray meals, cold drinks, and hot drinks from airpots.
Most long distance in these countries and in Africa have a courier as well as a driver, but serve yourself from a microwave would work here.
I was once on a group charter in India. The courier had a tub of ice in the stairwell, loaded with beer, and kept us well served on the long and dreary haul from the day's railway sightseeing back to our Agra hotel.

Roderick B Smith
(retired Rail News Victoria Editor)

Thanks for posting to my topic Roderick.
Have you got more photos of those coaches? Those interiors are a great idea.The beer idea on board is a no-no here.If only our coaches were as good as some of our trains here.There are coaches that travel great distances in South America.They have fewer passengers but more facilities onboard. Here's an old photo I found.

On youtube there are videos of South American express coaches.

[Roderick Smith]

I may have a photo of Chinese version. My memory is that it was twin aisle, with three sets of one above one per module.
I have been on a slumberette bus in Paraguay: greater pitch, and hence greater recline, but not horizontal.
Railway enthusiasts, decrying bus solutions, hate cramped buses. Bring on 2+1 seating in that width, not 2+2.
I then advocate a self-serve buffet at the back, balancing the toilet: a hot-water urn for making tea/coffee/noodles; a microwave for heating tv dinners.
There is no reason for not serving beer/wine/spirits on a bus: just management phobia (no eating or drinking on a bus), and another reason why railway people think that buses are too squalid to contemplate.
I have also been on five-abreast buses in third-world nations. In Tanzania, my two plump female companions in a 2+3 would have overfilled a 2+2; I was in a situation with one cheek on my seat, and the other on the sacks of potatoes clogging the aisle.

Roderick B Smith
(retired Rail News Victoria Editor)

[Denv12]

We really need inspire designers to design better coaches and features for luxury coach travel.There are those who choose not to fly,whether fear induced or not. Didnt Bus Australia come up with the sleeper seats that convert to beds in a Bova? That was for their Perth to Sydney service.It was in Truck & Bus magazine. As for alcohol on board,its a worry.Good thing there are state and federal laws banning it on board.Nobody should babysit drunks.Its bad enough when you do winery/ wine tasting tours.

I remember seeing a couple onboard a new Ansett Pioneer Landseer in 1986.They decided to sleep in (on) the (fold down)drivers bunk.They didnt last long.They were told to go back to their seats.

What facilities should there be on board coaches to make long distance travel better?

[tonyp]

What facilities should there be on board coaches to make long distance travel better?

A train.

The practical comfort limit of a coach journey is about 3-4 hours. Apart from other factors, it's the lack of ability to get up and comfortably walk around for breaks that limits a coach. Inherently they can't really be improved. It's all horses for courses. A train has its comfort limits by about 10 hours. Then you're looking at a plane which is about 12 hours. After that it's teleporting .....

[Bus Suggestions]

Maybe a mash of an Optimus/CB60 EvoII design. Front exterior-CB60 EVOII, Interior (whole)-Volgren Optimus, rear exterior-Volgren Optimus. Weighing it out becomes approx 15% CB60 EvoII and 85% Optimus. Will come in options of: 11 metre,12 metre, tri-axle 14.5 metres, 18 metres articulated and one you've all been waiting for... (drumroll please) a 13 metre double-deck variant!!!!!. All also come with the ULF (Ultra Low-Floor) option, with the exception of the double-deck.

[TA3001]

My pick would probably be setup like this.

It would be an SL202 with the following features:

- 1640's fueling issues exactly the same as they were in Dec 2015,

- 428's engine, with a retarder like the one in 1604 and 878.

- A worn diff like 859.

- 432's issues that caused it to rev high and be insanely loud even just in 60 zones

- An accelerator like 1610 has, which often applies max power.

- It would probably have a 4 speed Voith gearbox, with a fleet number of 1320 (420 with Serco)

And let's not forget guide wheels for O'bahn use. Build date mid 1996. Depot, St Agnes.

[Roderick Smith]

Name the purpose. For long distance: 2+1 seating with a buffet in the rear. That could be a help-yourself prepackaged snackbar, or a self-serve microwave oven with meals in a fridge, or a hot water urn with make-yourself tea/coffee/noodles. Serving beer doesn't have to be a no-no: that is policy, not engineering, and anything a deskbound jobsworth can make can be unmade by a more-senior one.
Australian vehicles and operators are outclassed by South America, central America, Spain and much of Asia. They are equalled by USA, Canada and South Africa, probably much of Europe. I have also been on genuine third-world long-distance buses in Pakistan and Tanzania and Peru.

I don't care about the chassis: I am a passenger, not a depot mechanic. However, even to a passenger those WAGR Hinos and more-recent (Greyhound?) Bovas always sounded to be bleeding to death.

Roderick

[J_Busworth]

I would really like a 14.5 volvo with a true low floor bodywork and three doors. Much better suited to inner city running than many of the buses in Australia.

[tonyp]

I would really like a 14.5 volvo with a true low floor bodywork and three doors. Much better suited to inner city running than many of the buses in Australia.

There are a number of European manufacturers producing low-floor chassis. Volvo is only one of the minor players. Available in Australia in RHD are the Scania N series and MAN Lions City (N). Unfortunately the RHD market so far isn't big enough to re-engineer the rear engine/drivetrain to enable that door behind the rear axle in RHD, but you can get two doors between the axles in addition to the front door.



The low-floor chassis should be the standard city bus chassis in Australia by now (more than 20 years since it has become standard in Europe), but our local industry is still stuck on the low-entry chassis with its problems of accessibility and crowd distribution (standees tend to congregate in the low-floor area, thus congesting the whole bus).